Regeneration (3.0!)

[Winternight]

Hi,
do I understand regeneration correct?:
If you fight with an Troll with an normal weapon (say axe) you can whack. But the wounds close slowly.
(avarage Damage axe: 6.5 + 1. 5xstrmod(3) = 11.5 , Trollreg = 5 -> avarage dag 6.5 )
So after some Rounds troll goes down.
unconscious.
You whack him into pieces, you chopp his head off and his arms and his ...
You stop exhausted from all the troll-chopping, after some time the troll is fully healed and you start it aggain. Bring him down to 1 hp (to be more precise up to max hp -1 subdual damag) and put then a torch into his face.

Questions.
1)
can I really chopp limbs off with subdual damage?
2)
Do i kill the troll with the last torch stroke?

 

[3d6]

A creature with regeneration takes subdual (not normal) damage from any attack that doesn't deal normal damage to it. For a troll, everything but fire and acid deals subdual damage.

So if you beat up a troll with an axe, you never change it's hit point total at all, because you're dealing subdual damage. (Subdual damage is tracked seperatly from hit points, see page 134 of the PHB.)

To kill a troll, you need to deal enough damage to it with fire or acid to kill it, an axe won't help to kill it at all.

 

[Bauglir]

1) Up to you I think

2) No - all the damage the troll has taken up to that point is subdual - the few points of damage from the torch are the only real damage. You need to do enough real damage to bring its hitpoints to -10 before it's dead.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Usually the problem can be solved with Coup-de-Grace attacks on an unconcious troll.

Some people think that the rules only allow coup-de-grace with Bows, Crossbows and melee weapons (they might be right, the wording allows the interpretation - and a coup de grace with a sling seems stupid, I admit...), but if you allow coup-de-grace with any weapon, you could also use the torch (though this might count as a melee weapon, anyway) or a Melf`s Acid Arrow. Remember, though, the Fort DC is 10+damage dealt, it is still not an automatic success...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Skinwalker]

Plus, Trolls have a wicked bonus to Fort saves. My recommendation: Fighter beats the Troll down with his best weapon while the Rogue lights up a torch. Rogue then administers CdG, with his Sneak Attack bonus raising the Fort Save DC to the obnoxious level needed to actually snuff the Troll.

 

[Winternight]

Thanx, but still got questions

GdC works (written in MM1)

Ok.
Still the question can I chop limbs (or head) off?
and another question :
MM1: Regeneration: normal weapon does subdual damage.
SRD:

When a character's subdual damage exceeds the character's current hit points, the character falls unconscious. While unconscious, a character is helpless.

What happens if I still hit the troll (Not with an GdC).
does he still recieve subdual damage ?
Putting him to 120 subdual damage, to keep him 12 rounds from fighting (120 -5 per rounds*12 =60 avag hits if troll)
Or are the Subdual da,age points lost?
Or are they converted to real Hitpoints once they exceeds the character's current hit points?
Or do they just disapear?

 

[Skinwalker]

Hmm...severing limbs and chopping to bits would have to be a matter of description/flavor text. This is definitely a house rule area.

And AFAIK, all normal damage you deal would continue to accumulate. I have not seen anything to indicate that subdual damage only accumulates to a certain point. Neither have I seen anything to indicate it lapses over into real hp's at any point. Shadowrun and Villains & Vigalantes had systems with a similar mechanic, but I've not seen the like in *any* edition of D&D.

It seems to me you could pound away on the troll until you fall over from exhaustion...and not cause it any *real* damage. Mental trauma and anguish, yes. Damage, no. But, it is a valid tactic for delaying them from getting up and rending you or to keep it busy while other party member(s) light up a torch.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Thanx, but still got questions

GdC works (written in MM1)

Grace de Coup? I assume you mean Coup de Grace. Anyways, it only works if you perform it with an attack that deals normal damage to the creature with regeneration. In other words, a coup do grace with a masterwork longsword on a troll won't work.

Still the question can I chop limbs (or head) off?

If he's helpless, I say go for it. Since you automatically hit anyway, whether or not it's a "called shot" is moot. The DMG covers damage to specific areas, such as sticking your hand in a fire. I don't think a situation with a helpless character is any different.

What happens if I still hit the troll (Not with an GdC).
does he still recieve subdual damage ?

Yes.

Or are the Subdual da,age points lost?

No. They aren't lost. The troll will heal his subdual damage first. As soon as his subudal equals his hit points, he's back up. When his subdual is less than his hit points, he's _really_ back up.

Or are they converted to real Hitpoints once they exceeds the character's current hit points?

No.

Or do they just disapear?

No.

 

[Winternight]

Thank you

Thank you folks

Grace de Coup? I assume you mean Coup de Grace

ya shure
Damm

thanks again

 

[greycastle]

What about burning individual parts of the troll? would it be possibly to burn small parts of it, so that eventually it dies becuase of the burnt parts inability to regenerate?

e.g. your characters have just 'defeated' a troll, and it lies 'helpless' on the ground. The party rogue then takes out the groups torches and starts administering burns to the trolls hands, arms, feet, legs, abdomanen, chest, and neck, without actually 'killing' the troll, by leaving the troll... firstly, is this possible, to simply kill off body parts? 2ndly, would the troll be able to seperate it's head to 'regrow' a new body eventually? would it simply die?