Reinventing fantasy cliches

[ekb]

Dark Lords, Dark Thrones

For the current story-game campaign, this is actually the core "hook" - the players are all old-school Red Box dungeon crawlers, but the setting is a semi-realistic 12th century Bavaria as seen through the lens of traditional ghost stories. The fairies aren't nice. The nobles aren't nice. No one is nice - this is survivalist RP. There are conflicting class levels and agendas in the party which means that there are different reactions to the same NPC. When the only absolutes are dogmatic, "dark" becomes universal (or irrelevant).

When I was digging through Blue Rose, I was looking at the setting as being ripe for subversion: the "good guys" in a pagan pro-gay pro-magic culture, the "ignorant guys" in an anti-magical monotheistic theocracy and the "bad guys" under the rule of a lich king and a scattering of outlanders of various stripe. There are personality traits, but no alignments in this system, so that's just another engine to do...
--The lich was a powerful ruler who had equally potent faith. His undead state is actually a divine blessing/commission to maintain the true "Old Ways" in the face of the revisionism of the other kingdoms.
--The system that the "good guys" use to determine rule - selection by a magical beast - isn't what it seems. The animals are actually manifestations of the antithesis of the Supreme Deity, subtly leading this kingdom into a state of perpetual war against the others. The "good gods" are also emanations of this "fallen one," appearing in a way that "makes sense to the wise" but is intrinsically absurdist.
--The "ignorant kingdom" follows their One True God, which is also an emanation of the "fallen one," but has become distorted by the priestly caste to serve their own ambitions. There are elements of the oldest traditions in their practices, but in general it's become degenerate and more pomp than power.
--Magic depletes the land and strengthens the "fallen one" every time it's used. What seems like raids by the "evil orcs" are actually tactical strikes by assault teams to destroy arcanists that are drawing too heavily on the land's mana.

There's more afoot, but since some of my players are on here...

In general, there's much mileage in the idea that people will do the most horrible things if they believe that it furthers "their people" in the end...

 

[Clavis]

I like the Rightful King trying to overthrow the popular democracy. One wonders by what right he claims a mandate...

Why, the Divine Right of Kings as instituted by the Gods! Perhaps the old Holy Monarchy fell beacuse of the actions of some Dark Lord, sending the nobility into into exile with a General McArthur-like promise to return. The Dark Lord was subsequently overthrown by a peasant army that instituted a secular republic. Decades later, the Rightful King, who was just a boy when the his family fled, returns to restore the old Holy Monarchy, with the support of the remaining old clergy. Perhaps the Wizards support the new Republic and its emphasis on reason, rather than faith.

Related theme: what have folks done with "The Dark Lord on his Dark Throne" trope?

The main city the PCs operate out was founded by a brooding, ancient Wizard who is at least 700 years old. Nobody has ever seen his face or body under his red and black robes, because he wears a mask and gloves at all times. He is said to have enslaved demons to build the city, and still inhabits an impossibly tall black tower in its center. He has been responsible for several terrifying displays of magical might against people (and armies) that he felt failed to give him the proper deference. While he has relinquished formal power to an elected Lord Mayor, it is understood that he remains the true power in the city. Also, he never speaks above a whisper, so his will is made known by the his Consort, an 11-13 year old girl that is with him at all times. Nobody knows where the Consorts come from, or what happens to them after they reach 13. The Rumors aren't pretty...

Of course, the little Girl is actually the Wizard, as she's the immortal daughter of a powerful Outsider. The veiled man is just a toy construct. The girl never slips from her game, however, and gives no clue about the actual relationship between her and the veiled figure. As far as she's concerned, she could continue the game for a few thousand years more without getting bored. Mundane humans are so silly...

 

[Evilhalfling]

My DarkLord was the head of a country that was taken over by demons. It was a mixture of humans, tielfings and actual outsiders, held at bay only by a mountain range, and order of knights and a divine interdiction on teleporting into territory they did not control.

The empire was mostly city states, each run by a powerful lord, half-fiend or outsider, all competeing against each other, but refraining from outright war. The Emperor was never seen, and his wishes were carried out by the Lawwrights - or lawyers. Each one a powerful sorcerer, with the head of a jackel.

by 17th level the PCs had allied with the spymaster of a defeated city lord, and besiged a second. They still got all twitchy when one of the Arcanaloth showed up with a contract. They even started to hear rumors that there was no emperor and that the Arcanaloths were running the empire, and guessed that there may be only a single archoloth that was masquerading as several. The Emperor had been playing the cities against each other for the last 150 years (since a demon lord's avatar had led the empire in a failed invasion to take over the world) If they were feeling really paranoid they may have guessed that that too was part of the plot.

I don't believe I ever decided what was really going on.

 

[haakon1]

Dark Lords:

1) Over time, as the PCs gain power, they get asked to do more and more dangerous and distasteful things...including attacking villages just across the border that are known to harbor the brigands who are raiding their fair country, or rooting out unbelievers. (At some point, I hope your players wake up and smell the dictatorship.)

2) .... the Lich-King hasn't issued an order in almost 400 years, and is currently engrossed with his study of subspecies of hummingbirds across the planes.

Yes, he initiated the raising of the dark army that countless heroes have died fighting, but that was ages ago. He has no interest in politics whatsoever anymore...

Or does he?

I've done both of these.

1) Short-lived Star Wars RPG (pre-D20) where the PC's were explorer scout storm troopers on the ISS (Imperial Star Ship) Hornet. ISS Hornet was on a 5 year voyage to seek out new life, and new civilization, to boldly go where no human has gone before and conquer the alien scum for the glory of Emperor Palpatine.

These stormtroopers were not clones, but humans (we did this before we saw the prequealogy), recruited in part with tales of the non-human rebels against the Empire, like those darn Calamaris, who threaten human domination of the galaxy and would kill us all if they could break free, whose power was so great they destroyed the Death Star already!

2) The first adventure I wrote, called "Raid on Raiders", had the rule of the raiders as a second level illusionist who had tricked everyone into thinking he was more powerful than he was. An illusionist of Oz pretending to be a minor dark lord.

 

[Derren]

Most German castles, on the other hand, don't look like "castles" from the Disney/British view. Many of them weren't designed for war (especially if they were built by Ludwig or August the Strong).

One thing you have to remember that there are two words for "castle" in German. "Burg" and "Schloss".
"Schloss" encompasses the big, luxury homes of nobles like Versailles and Neuschwanstein. The last two pictures you posted also fall under this category.
"Burg" on the other hand means all those castles build for war with walls, murder holes, etc.
Examples include:

Burg Eltz

Burg Maus

Most Germans, even if they have nothing to do with history and roleplaying, are aware of this difference even though many of the war focused "Burgen" were converted into "Schlösser" after they lost their military relevance.
So it always depends how the individual person in Germany translates the word castle.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Just to list some cliche's that show up in D&D games with regular frequency:

- Save the world from the demonic army from Hell / The Abyss
- Save the world from the undead hordes
- Save the world from the evil wizard
- Complete the important task that the Lvl 20 wizard who is assigning it to you is too busy to do himself
- Find the magic item for the local wizard...
- ... who inevitably betrays you and tries to use the item against you
- Raid the underground fortress of evil monsters who happen to have treasure that you want
- Stop the local orc tribe from attacking the village
- Break up the local thieves guild
- Rumors abound of a mighty dragon, who probably ought to be killed
- The local Lawful Good religious order is full of extremist zealots who are dangerous.

If you intend to get way from these cliches it will take some work. Playing up to the opposite of a cliche while running a game that the players can give a damn about is tricky. The only reliable method is to find a way to make the players give a damn about some NPC villain so that taking them down becomes personal.

A good starting point would be to take obvious hooks and play them as red herrings. Such as the intolerant lawful good organization that is actually mostly reasonable. The nobleman who appears corrupt but is actually a pretty nice guy.

My suggestion: Asking the players to rescue someone who the orcs intend to sacrifice to their gods. As the adventure continues, the players discover that the villiage also wants to sacrifice the victim to their own gods.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Derren]

Add:
- Kobolds (sometimes goblins) have invaded a local mine.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Originally Posted by DrunkonDuty
I like the Rightful King trying to overthrow the popular democracy. One wonders by what right he claims a mandate...

Why, the Divine Right of Kings as instituted by the Gods! Perhaps the old Holy Monarchy fell beacuse of the actions of some Dark Lord, sending the nobility into into exile with a General McArthur-like promise to return. The Dark Lord was subsequently overthrown by a peasant army that instituted a secular republic. Decades later, the Rightful King, who was just a boy when the his family fled, returns to restore the old Holy Monarchy, with the support of the remaining old clergy. Perhaps the Wizards support the new Republic and its emphasis on reason, rather than faith.

Cool. But I admit I was hoping someone would say "Strange ladies lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for an electoral system." Which is of course a classic inversion of a classic trope.

Got to say I love the idea of the little (immortal) girl and her homonculus.
And the obssessive compulsive Lich. If you've got forever and are a studious, nerdy sort of wizard to begin with, I can see going this way. Ruling people would have to get boring after a while.

Definitely agree about getting the players to care about the NPCs. Once they do that, you have them hook line and sinker in the world. WHich is what all GMs want really.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

if you do not mind the risk of being run out of the room, you could just implement a non classic internet meme in place of a fantasy trope.

Specifically, underpants gnomes.

There have been a rash of break ins committed by gnomes, though no one seems to be sure what, if anything was stolen. When the players track down the newly active theives guild, they discover it is populated by gnomes, and they are stealing underpants.

Determine step 2 for your self.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Rechan]

So, a general question.

I've noticed that to some extent, a game needs some sort of monster or race that is Irredeemably Evil. The kind of creature that you can feel no qualms about putting to the sword. This even includes its young. Because if you add too many shades of gray, the game becomes "We can't attack anyone because we don't know if we're justified!" But in many a game, people like kicking in doors and killing bad guys. To aid that, sometimes you need to let the players breathe and go "Okay, we DON'T need to ask questions about THOSE guys, we can DESTROY them." Sort've like fighting Nazis. They're nazis, so it's okay.

Now, in standard D&D, demons and undead fill this hole.

But, demons and undead can't always fill the niche you want. So what about a Race of some Humanoid? Some low CR grunt race. Many people seem to put Orc as this; they're not just savage and brutish, but they're pure black hearted with no souls.

Is this a Cliche, Trope, Element of Fantasy, or what?

What if you have an explanation for it? Like with LotR how Orcs are corrupted elves. That's an Explanation as to WHY this thing here is evil and even if you take it home and nurture it, it'll still eat you. (Like the old fable of the Scorpion and the frog). Does that change what it is?