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Reinventing Roleplaying Games
- Thread starter mythusmage
- Start date
Thornir Alekeg
Albatross!
My last post to these nebulous "change" threads...
Bran Blackbyrd had a pretty good summary above, but I'll put in my last 2 cents on this topic.
Mythusmage, you seem to be dissatisfied with the state of D&D. Ok, fine nothing is perfect. You seem to think you have ideas for reinventing or revolutionizing D&D. Great, what are they exactly? Your "ideas" about creating a setting, guiding the charaterizations etc. etc. are all things IMO that D&D already does. Perhaps not perfectly, perhaps it does not come out and tell you how to think exactly to do this, but it is all there, you just need to use your own brain to fill in the blanks...and I like it that way, I don't want someone telling me how I should think.
What I seem to get from almost every posting other than your own is that people seem to be OK with the state of D&D as it is. I think everyone also agrees that there might be changes that are worthwhile to make D&D better, but nobody else that I can see thinks that things are so bad that the entire D&D system needs an immediate rework (heck, people are already crying about 4.0 rumors...). It is obvious that people here are not going to assist you in starting your revolution.
When you have real suggestions about how to change D&D, not nebulous things like "it should be non-confrontational", "it should describe a setting" or "it should resolve conflict", feel free to post them to the boards and I'm sure people will offer their critique. If they are really concrete ideas, I'm sure people will be willing to offer further ideas for improvement, or suggest why they will not work. I would love it if somehow you stumbled upon a truly revolutionary idea that made things better for everyone, but for now I enjoy my D&D the way it is and see no need to change things as you suggest.
If this ship is sinking, I guess I'll be happy to go down with it, but so far I think it is doing just fine. Feel free to jump into a lifeboat and set your own course, but don't expect a lot of company.
And if all you are doing is trolling for attention, while you seem to be pretty good at it, sooner or later people will figure it out and stop paying attention.
Bran Blackbyrd had a pretty good summary above, but I'll put in my last 2 cents on this topic.
Mythusmage, you seem to be dissatisfied with the state of D&D. Ok, fine nothing is perfect. You seem to think you have ideas for reinventing or revolutionizing D&D. Great, what are they exactly? Your "ideas" about creating a setting, guiding the charaterizations etc. etc. are all things IMO that D&D already does. Perhaps not perfectly, perhaps it does not come out and tell you how to think exactly to do this, but it is all there, you just need to use your own brain to fill in the blanks...and I like it that way, I don't want someone telling me how I should think.
What I seem to get from almost every posting other than your own is that people seem to be OK with the state of D&D as it is. I think everyone also agrees that there might be changes that are worthwhile to make D&D better, but nobody else that I can see thinks that things are so bad that the entire D&D system needs an immediate rework (heck, people are already crying about 4.0 rumors...). It is obvious that people here are not going to assist you in starting your revolution.
When you have real suggestions about how to change D&D, not nebulous things like "it should be non-confrontational", "it should describe a setting" or "it should resolve conflict", feel free to post them to the boards and I'm sure people will offer their critique. If they are really concrete ideas, I'm sure people will be willing to offer further ideas for improvement, or suggest why they will not work. I would love it if somehow you stumbled upon a truly revolutionary idea that made things better for everyone, but for now I enjoy my D&D the way it is and see no need to change things as you suggest.
If this ship is sinking, I guess I'll be happy to go down with it, but so far I think it is doing just fine. Feel free to jump into a lifeboat and set your own course, but don't expect a lot of company.
And if all you are doing is trolling for attention, while you seem to be pretty good at it, sooner or later people will figure it out and stop paying attention.
William Ronald
Explorer
The Metal Pope: Welcome to the boards!!! You might be interested in checking out the Mental Stability and Roleplaying Games thread.
I perused the arguments made in this thread, and believe that mythusmage is dissatisfied with what he perceives as a lack of interest in the hobby by young people. I believe that it is important to attract new people of all ages to role playing games. However, it seems that the changes that mythusmage suggests seem to be unwelcome or already implemented in one form of another. I know two game shop owners, and many of their young customers who are involved in CCGs show an interest in RPGs.
People will play D&D or any other game as they wish, although I do believe encouraging role playing can make a gaming session more enjoyable.
The question is how to increase the number of people in the hobby. Jonathan Tweet and Monte Cook have commented on it . (Can someone include a link to that thread?) Here are some of my ideas:
More boxed beginner sets: These would be relatively inexpensive ways for people to get into RPGs. Somewhat simplified rules and a few adventures. WotC is creating one for the D&D game, and I could see a Storyteller version. The boxed sets would have some information on the games that they are based on, including directions to company web sites. This would provide an inexpensive gateway to our "hobby" (or whatever you wish to call it) without overwhelming novices with too many rules and options.
Company support: Perhaps the company websites could include a few downloads for a boxed set, or at least link to sites about the game in question.
Community support: There was a time when the Role Playing Games Association did much more than they do now in terms of game demos. I think that the RPGA and similar organizations can work with companies in promoting RPGs. A few stores I know frequently run gaming events. (You can also check out the EN World Game Day link in my sig. Maybe igaming enthusiasts are best-suited to promote our past-time. However, some support by the industry would be welcome. )
Marketing: D&D is one of the best recognized brand names, as I understand it. I think that more marketing can be done by WotC, even if Hasbro is not particularly interested in doing so. (Perhaps a card with some info on the game and a web link -- inserted into different WotC products -- might be a cheap way to advertise the hobby.) Also, maybe some celebrity gamers might be willing to do a commercial for scale acting wages -- which might make a commercial more affordable. (Heck, at least advertise on the SciFi Channel.)
From what I see, the RPG hobby is doing well. Sales are up. However, I think the concern about aging customers -- implicit in mythusmage's posts - is a legitimate one. There may only be a limited market for RPGs, as many people wish to be entertained by observing something rather than participating in an activity. However, I think there is room for growth and improvement -- in both our selves and in the RPG hobby.
I perused the arguments made in this thread, and believe that mythusmage is dissatisfied with what he perceives as a lack of interest in the hobby by young people. I believe that it is important to attract new people of all ages to role playing games. However, it seems that the changes that mythusmage suggests seem to be unwelcome or already implemented in one form of another. I know two game shop owners, and many of their young customers who are involved in CCGs show an interest in RPGs.
People will play D&D or any other game as they wish, although I do believe encouraging role playing can make a gaming session more enjoyable.
The question is how to increase the number of people in the hobby. Jonathan Tweet and Monte Cook have commented on it . (Can someone include a link to that thread?) Here are some of my ideas:
More boxed beginner sets: These would be relatively inexpensive ways for people to get into RPGs. Somewhat simplified rules and a few adventures. WotC is creating one for the D&D game, and I could see a Storyteller version. The boxed sets would have some information on the games that they are based on, including directions to company web sites. This would provide an inexpensive gateway to our "hobby" (or whatever you wish to call it) without overwhelming novices with too many rules and options.
Company support: Perhaps the company websites could include a few downloads for a boxed set, or at least link to sites about the game in question.
Community support: There was a time when the Role Playing Games Association did much more than they do now in terms of game demos. I think that the RPGA and similar organizations can work with companies in promoting RPGs. A few stores I know frequently run gaming events. (You can also check out the EN World Game Day link in my sig. Maybe igaming enthusiasts are best-suited to promote our past-time. However, some support by the industry would be welcome. )
Marketing: D&D is one of the best recognized brand names, as I understand it. I think that more marketing can be done by WotC, even if Hasbro is not particularly interested in doing so. (Perhaps a card with some info on the game and a web link -- inserted into different WotC products -- might be a cheap way to advertise the hobby.) Also, maybe some celebrity gamers might be willing to do a commercial for scale acting wages -- which might make a commercial more affordable. (Heck, at least advertise on the SciFi Channel.)
From what I see, the RPG hobby is doing well. Sales are up. However, I think the concern about aging customers -- implicit in mythusmage's posts - is a legitimate one. There may only be a limited market for RPGs, as many people wish to be entertained by observing something rather than participating in an activity. However, I think there is room for growth and improvement -- in both our selves and in the RPG hobby.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
All I can say is, I taught stewardesses to play. No one can say I'm not doing my share.William Ronald said:
The Metal Pope
First Post
Improving the game
Yes, there are potential customers out there RPG's aren't reaching at the moment. Here in Belgium, several gaming shops closed down because there wasn't enough interest in role-playing. The thing which killed them is, I think, bad distribution and bad business management. Also, shopkeepers could do more in order to promote RPG's. At the moment, card games and Games Workshop products sell a lot better. That's one of the reasons why our magazine, www.fantastiek.com, also organizes demonstrations on a weekly basis. All participants pay a small fee, which we pool to buy the product we're demo'ing and give it to a randomly determined player.
Regarding 'reinventing the game': yes, guidelines are good. Yes, it is good to include role-playing hints, examples, etc. in RPG products. Ultimately, it is the players' and gamemaster's ABILITY to ACT OUT their characters which makes for a fun game. Some people just aren't terribly good at acting. Most become better actors as they keep gaming. Others stop gaming because they realize they're missing something. But no set of guidelines can GUARANTEE the people who read the guidelines will start to enjoy the game, or will become superb method actors. The most important thing is to find enough players who share your ideas and who enjoy playing 'in character'.
Yes, there are potential customers out there RPG's aren't reaching at the moment. Here in Belgium, several gaming shops closed down because there wasn't enough interest in role-playing. The thing which killed them is, I think, bad distribution and bad business management. Also, shopkeepers could do more in order to promote RPG's. At the moment, card games and Games Workshop products sell a lot better. That's one of the reasons why our magazine, www.fantastiek.com, also organizes demonstrations on a weekly basis. All participants pay a small fee, which we pool to buy the product we're demo'ing and give it to a randomly determined player.
Regarding 'reinventing the game': yes, guidelines are good. Yes, it is good to include role-playing hints, examples, etc. in RPG products. Ultimately, it is the players' and gamemaster's ABILITY to ACT OUT their characters which makes for a fun game. Some people just aren't terribly good at acting. Most become better actors as they keep gaming. Others stop gaming because they realize they're missing something. But no set of guidelines can GUARANTEE the people who read the guidelines will start to enjoy the game, or will become superb method actors. The most important thing is to find enough players who share your ideas and who enjoy playing 'in character'.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
But you're ignoring the fact that RPG's *are* games. The *are* competative. They *are* one side vs. another side. Namely, it's the characters vs. the monsters. And the resolution of the conflict brings game rewards -- levels and gold, a 'score' of sorts.
This is the basis of D&D, and is the basis of a game. D&D is not inherently about assuming a role in a ficticious world -- that's an elaboration on the basic system, one that I like, and encourage, but it's not D&D. D&D is beating up monsters and taking their stuff. The very first DM was antagonistic, DMing *against* the players, COMPETITIVELY.
To give anybody any other impression would be misleading about what D&D, at it's basic level, actually is.
Whatever else you want it to be, feel free to experiment and adventure -- D&D and d20 is hardly limited to it's origins. But your round hole won't fit this square peg without you, personally, doing some fiddling.
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