Relationship between Evils . . .

[Goobermunch]

Okay, so here's my question: What kind of relationship do you think creatures from the Far Realm should have with the more general evils of the D&D universe? E.g., a powerful Kaorti sorceror and a Balor walk into a bar . . . what happens next?

Do they sit and have a drink and regale each other with stories of adventurers they've killed?

Do they eye each other warily and go about their business?

Do they realize that each has a different (and basically inscrutible in the case of the Kaorti) view of evil and kill each other to prevent interference with their respective plans for reality?

What if we add a lich into the mix? How does he/she/it get along with the others?

The reason I ask is that in my homebrew, there is a nation of undead creatures loyal to Orcus. There's also a powerful Kaorti cyst. I'm trying to decide how the undead would relate to the Kaorti.

Your input is appreciated.

--G

 

[Nifft]

IMHO:

1) No-one is ever loyal to Orcus. Loyalty, Honor, Respect are all traits of Good. There are those who serve Orcus, out of fear or lust for power or the desire to be "on the winning side".

Alliances are temporary and balance on when the perfect time to betray the other is.


2) Evil hates anyone else having power. So if a Balor couldn't find a use for a Kaorti, he'd ignore it or kill it.
Balor: "Hey, wanna be my minion?"
Kaorti: "@!(*&%@(*$#&"
Balor: "Uh... FIREBALL!!!"

(Note that in this respect Balors are clearly re-incarnated PCs.)


3) The Balor and the Lich probably know each other by name: "Hey, remember that time back in '41 when you summoned me to steal that guy's kids? And then used their own souls to pay me? Man, the look on his face when you sent their soulless bodies back to him as ghouls..."

Nonetheless, they will treat each other carefully.


4) Three evils is a decent mix. Two would attack each other, but with three you can have a "balance of power" situation where each has an alliance with the other two, but keeps trying to get the other two to destroy each other (so he can kill the weakened remnants of both and RULE THE WORLD! Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!)


-- N

 

[Alzrius]

I'd guess that none of the above (kaorti, lich, or balor), would get along too well. There isn't really a "united in evil" thing going on.

The Kaorti are from the Far Realm, and that place seems more about madness than anything else...its chaotic, but not in "Chaos" per se, but rather thats how we'd classify it (hence why it doesn't have the Chaotic planar trait). Balors, while demonic, are still from a reality that is at least understandable, it distasteful, to mortal minds. A kaorti might not see too much difference between a balor and a mortal.

Similar things go for a lich and a kaorti...all the moreso, because a lich has its roots in being mortal.

 

[Felikeries]

the idea that evil groups work together is inherent,however when they are not skirted about by a 'lead lord' then they may be apt to start fighting eachother,this can be settled by

~hours,or days from the leader
~their own wiz,against each other(who might actually win)
~is there a chance that money or freedom is involved with a wild attack
~has the party interacted with them,if so did they make brash accusations etc,which later leads to greater modifier for these 'fighting' rollers

There is also the reality that a greater evil' or powerfull item within possesion may make the owner less ap to start a fight untill the use for it is made,and though the evil npc is guffed at,the goal is more important,even if this goal is reached with the item and little grandeness is to be of it,the 'evil' being will now be more likely to go wild,or if powered is the case,start a clan of their own,in which case much fighting will occur,though using the table for relative likelyness for joining or fighting may still aply

 

[fafhrd]

There's a fanstastic short story by Clark Ashton Smith called "The Double Shadow"(highly recommend the read if you can find it). Its told in a reflective style by a wizard's apprentice through a journal. It relates the exploits of a mighty conjurer who is perilously confident in his powers and abilities. He has bound devils, undead, mighty wizards of previous ages and the like. He has no fear of the dark. One day, he discovers a tablet dating back to a long lost reptilian civilization. The tablet bears arcane inscriptions in an unknown tongue. The wizard, curiosity piqued, sets out summoning all sorts of fell being in order to riddle out the power of the icon. Many of them are either ignorant or terrified by the implications. Eventually he manages to discern the contents and engages in the summoning of the being, despite the admonitions of his conjured interlocutors. To sum up,the bound beings quail in the wake of his summoning. Even undead spirits and demons fall before the insidious evil that is manifested and the wizard is, of course, unable to put the genie back into the bottle.

I like to think of the Far Realms in a similar fashion. Mortals and fiendom alike share some basic sympathies of power, ego, and purpose. The denizens of the far realms are alien, lacking in these basic parities. Even the mighty lords of the Abyss fear the inscrutable powers of the far realms.

 

[DragonLancer]

Okay, so here's my question: What kind of relationship do you think creatures from the Far Realm should have with the more general evils of the D&D universe? E.g., a powerful Kaorti sorceror and a Balor walk into a bar . . . what happens next?

Do they sit and have a drink and regale each other with stories of adventurers they've killed?

Do they eye each other warily and go about their business?

Do they realize that each has a different (and basically inscrutible in the case of the Kaorti) view of evil and kill each other to prevent interference with their respective plans for reality?

What if we add a lich into the mix? How does he/she/it get along with the others?

The reason I ask is that in my homebrew, there is a nation of undead creatures loyal to Orcus. There's also a powerful Kaorti cyst. I'm trying to decide how the undead would relate to the Kaorti.

Your input is appreciated.

--G

Nope to those situations.

Demons aren't just regular monsters like orcs or ogres, thats too much like Planescape. Demons are creatures of pure evil.

Creatures from the Far Realm, are alien... and Lovecraftian. Their personality, intelligence and motivation are so alien and inexplicable that I think even Demons would have trouble trying to understand them.

You know your world better than I, but if you consider what I have said, you should be able apply that to your world.

Hope it helps.

 

[Piratecat]

I'm suddenly spacing; where are the kaorti detailed? I remember reading about them, but for the life of me can't remember where.

Thanks!

 

[DragonLancer]

Try the Fiend Folio.

 

[Kaodi]

Loyalty, Honour, Respect?

I'm interested to know why an evil person/being cannot possess these traits.

 

[DragonLancer]

They can, very easily. Evil organisations and LE societies could not function without those traits. If you want an example, look at the Knights of Takhisis/Neraka in the Dragonlance setting.