Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

Parmandur

Legend
There is a post here somewhere with PF1 sales ranking for several years. We could get some kind of comparison.

Just remember that this rank is really good. It does seem to be FAR better than other RPGs not D&D. 5e is the outlier here.

Anaybody have an idea what the last ranking was? Who’s on third? What’s their rank?
Spring 2019 for game stores had:

1.) D&D
2.) Starfinder
3.) Star Wars
4.) Vampire
5.) Pathfinder

That's in the Features section here:

 

TheSword

Explorer
The irony is I buy a pretty staggering amount of stuff from Paizo, to convert to 5e or from 3rd parties (way of wicked) or system neutral products like minis or battle maps. I don’t want to see Paizo fail. Just that the Pathfinder project was downsized and they branch out again.

But Yes, I’m not proud of it. It’s a pretty selfish emotion to want a return to the bygone days of Age of Worms etc.
 

Mistwell

Hero
They are saying their sales on Amazon are better than what they got for PF1, and it is outselling every other RPG (maybe Star Wars is doing better?). It seems it is really more about how big 5E is at 5 years, than a problem for Paizo. I mean, the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide is still selling like gangbusters, nearly 4 years old and having a mixed reception critically speaking? Bonkers.
I've never been someone who thinks they need to outsell 5e or even come close to 5e sales for the edition to be a success. I am more trying to guess what their print run would have been and what they anticipated sales to be around this point.

I am sure it's outselling all RPGs other than 5e, but I am not sure that's saying much. I do not think it's outselling what PF1 did at this point in their sales cycle. Pathfinder 1e Core Rulebook was selling close to these numbers on Amazon in 2016 - that's well after 5e had already been released and was doing very well. If PF2 in the first month of sales is down to close to what PF1 was 7 years into it's sales cycle, I just can't imagine these were the anticipated sales numbers they would have had in mind for a month in, when they ordered the first print of PF2.

But I am not an expert in this field. I could well be wrong.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I've never been someone who thinks they need to outsell 5e or even come close to 5e sales for the edition to be a success. I am more trying to guess what their print run would have been and what they anticipated sales to be around this point.

I am sure it's outselling all RPGs other than 5e, but I am not sure that's saying much. I do not think it's outselling what PF1 did at this point in their sales cycle. Pathfinder 1e Core Rulebook was selling close to these numbers on Amazon in 2016 - that's well after 5e had already been released and was doing very well. If PF2 in the first month of sales is down to close to what PF1 was 7 years into it's sales cycle, I just can't imagine these were the anticipated sales numbers they would have had in mind for a month in, when they ordered the first print of PF2.

But I am not an expert in this field. I could well be wrong.
Erik Mona posted this in a comment thread on Reddit:

"Amazon sometimes seems to lower a book’s price to “keep the heat on” strong sales. But sometimes they seem to do it to spur sales. I suspect it also has something to do with how much inventory. I do know that, in most cases, these are purely algorithmic decisions without any human element. There must be a logic to them, but I can’t figure it out. Probably no one can, because it’s based on factors we cannot possibly see."

"I can see how many copies Amazon has sold so far, and that number is phenomenal. I can also see their current pending order with our book distributor, and that number makes me even happier."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/cr8o6p
 

Mistwell

Hero
Erik Mona posted this in a comment thread on Reddit:

"Amazon sometimes seems to lower a book’s price to “keep the heat on” strong sales. But sometimes they seem to do it to spur sales. I suspect it also has something to do with how much inventory. I do know that, in most cases, these are purely algorithmic decisions without any human element. There must be a logic to them, but I can’t figure it out. Probably no one can, because it’s based on factors we cannot possibly see."

"I can see how many copies Amazon has sold so far, and that number is phenomenal. I can also see their current pending order with our book distributor, and that number makes me even happier."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/cr8o6p
Yes he posted that RIGHT after the release (24 days ago), when sales spiked to top 50 in all book sales. If it had held that for even a week, it would have been meaningful.

It did not. A month in, it's down so far that I cannot think his initial comment remains relevant. The only alternative explanation I can think of is it sold out inventory at Amazon and that caused a massive spike downward in sales ranking, but that seems unlikely this many days in with consistently lower ranking.

I just don't think this is what they anticipated. All books spike on initial release, but they don't usually go from nearly top 10 in all books to 2500 in all books in that same month period of time. That's not normal sales numbers. It's not a good look for long term sales.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Yes he posted that RIGHT after the release (24 days ago), when sales spiked to top 50 in all book sales. If it had held that for even a week, it would have been meaningful.

It did not. A month in, it's down so far that I cannot think his initial comment remains relevant.

I just don't think this is what they anticipated. All books spike on initial release, but they don't usually go from nearly top 10 in all books to 2500 in all books in that same month period of time. That's not normal sales numbers. It's not a good look for long term sales.
Fair points. It honestly isn't setting the hobby on fire, just in terms of buzz, that I can see.
 

Jer

Adventurer
Whether or not they compete for the exact same niche or on the same terms/scale, Paizo is always in direct competition with WotC just as they are with every other RPG company simply because customers don't have unlimited time or money enough to buy and play all examples of somewhat similar products.
personally I think this is the wrong way to view things, at least from a game sales perspective. Sure to a degree all games are in competition with each other, but that's "at the table play time" and not "sales". Just because both Arkham Horror and Wrath of Ashardalon are options on boardgame night that doesn't mean that I haven't actually given both companies my money.

Likewise, most folks who are buying a non-D&D RPG probably have at least a Player's Handbook from some edition on their shelves and probably have played in a D&D campaign - probably within the last few years or so. Also without D&D it's very likely that RPGs as a segment don't even get into game stores - I can remember the dark days of the late 1990s when TSR was dying and not releasing products. It wasn't like White Wolf and Palladium were dancing in the streets because they were picking up the excess orders from folks who couldn't get D&D products. Instead I remember game stores pushing more MtG and Pokemon (and to a lesser extent Warhammer) to try to fill in the gaps in their budgets.

Selling RPGs has - with some exceptions - historically been about getting people who play D&D to take a look at your game and play it too. Some of those convert over to never playing D&D again, but I suspect that's rarer than the ones who continue to at least dabble in D&D while playing other games (or dabble in other games while mostly playing D&D).

ETA: And thinking about it, right now with the way Wizards sells D&D I think this is even more true. They put out a few books a year, leaving a lot more room than they used to for people to purchase a book from another game line here or there and at least give it a read if not actually play a one shot or miniseries with it. Budget-wise it's a lot easier to justify it now than it has been at any time previous if you were the kind of person who went whole hog into buy everything D&D (except for those aforementioned months when TSR wasn't publishing anything at all prior to Wizards buying them out).
 

darjr

I crit!
None of the star wars rpg books from ffg have a sales rank. What does that mean?

There was a point when the sales rank of starfinder and PF1 crosses at 4000, but for the life of me I can’t find any of the charts I posted. Bleh. There is one company that looks like it has historical sales rank info, but they want $20 a month. Hey! If everyone buys enough stuff from my dmsguild link I’ll sign up for a month.
 

Parmandur

Legend
None of the star wars rpg books from ffg have a sales rank. What does that mean?

There was a point when the sales rank of starfinder and PF1 crosses at 4000, but for the life of me I can’t find any of the charts I posted. Bleh. There is one company that looks like it has historical sales rank info, but they want $20 a month. Hey! If everyone buys enough stuff from my dmsguild link I’ll sign up for a month.
It seems that Fantasy Flight Games doesn't play ball with Amazon, since all their products on the site seem to be from FLGS that sell on Amazon as third parties.

Hence, no formal Amazon ranking in the same way.
 

darjr

I crit!
Starfinder is at 14503
And the “international” version of vampire is at 68676. Do I have the right entries?

And that PF2E reddit group is a ghost town.

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Green Onceler

Explorer
An anecdote which may or may not be of any value:

I ordered a load of PF1 products from the ongoing sale at Paizo.com on Aug. 23rd which didn't ship until Sept. 5th along with an apology from Customer Service that they were incredibly busy and regretted the delay. My orders usually ship from Paizo within 24 hours.

That seems to suggest brisk sales.
 

Parmandur

Legend
An anecdote which may or may not be of any value:

I ordered a load of PF1 products from the ongoing sale at Paizo.com on Aug. 23rd which didn't ship until Sept. 5th along with an apology from Customer Service that they were incredibly busy and regretted the delay. My orders usually ship from Paizo within 24 hours.

That seems to suggest brisk sales.
At least for that week.
 

Green Onceler

Explorer
At least for that week.
I might place another order now just to check :giggle:

Still, it's 3 weeks after release and took about two weeks to ship. I think suggesting that it was just a one week anomaly seems unrealistic. I fully concede it may be a release month anomaly, though. None of my group seem interested in picking up Second Edition.
 

Mistwell

Hero
The Core Rulebook is now behind Ghosts of Saltmarsh and the Hyrule Historian coffee table book for Zelda.
I think it's because they raised the price quite a bit, to only 10% off instead of the 40% off it was at one point. In fact Amazon third party sellers are selling it for $48.19, which is lower than the $53.99 Amazon is selling it for themselves.
 
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Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I think it's because they raised the price quite a bit, to only 10% off instead of the 40% off it was at one point. In fact Amazon third party sellers are selling it for $48.19, which is lower than the $53.99 Amazon is selling it for themselves.
I bought the Core Rulebook and Bestiary from Amazon after purchasing the PDFs to evaluate the game, but looking at the lack of discounts on supplements and upcoming rule books have opted for the subscriptions. If I am only going to save a couple bucks I would much rather get the PDFs as well and pay full price.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I think it's because they raised the price quite a bit, to only 10% off instead of the 40% off it was at one point. In fact Amazon third party sellers are selling it for $48.19, which is lower than the $53.99 Amazon is selling it for themselves.
Ooof, that is bad, and might be the opposite causality, since Amazon tends to discount what is selling hot to maintain the streak. Fewer sales, after they restocked, less of a discount...
 

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