Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[apoapostolov]

Yes for most of the monsters are unique to the adventure path. But they use at least a few stat blocks from Bestiary.

 

[Porridge]

I was on amazon this morning looking some D&D books, and I noticed something a bit odd. The PF2e core rulebook is #4376 on books and #1 in pathfinder game; howver the bestiary is #14,306 in books and #5 in pathfinder game! Why is the bestiary so low?

For comparison, the 5e MM is #3 behind the PHB and DMG in "Dungeons and Dragons"

As @gss000 suggests, it probably has to do with DMs. The ratios might make sense if most PF2 players buy the core book, but only DMs are buying the Bestiary. The 5E monster books, even Kobold Press stuff, are more fit for entertainment reading, from what I've seen, too.

I believe the actual reason is that Amazon mistakenly classifies several titles which aren't produced by Paizo (and don't have anything in particular to do with the Pathfinder RPG) in the "Pathfinder game" category.

So, for example, on Amazon the PF2 core book is currently #1 in "Pathfinder game" and the Bestiary is #6, but #2-#5 are all non-Paizo books:

The Ultimate RPG Character Backstory Guide (#2),
The Book of Random Tables: Quests: Adventure... (#3),
A Dragon Walks Into a Bar: An RPG Joke Book (#4),
The Book of Random Tables: Fantasy Role... (#5).

Among the titles Paizo produces, the Bestiary is #2, as one would expect.

 

[dave2008]

I believe the actual reason is that Amazon mistakenly classifies several titles which aren't produced by Paizo (and don't have anything in particular to do with the Pathfinder RPG) in the "Pathfinder game" category.

So, for example, on Amazon the PF2 core book is currently #1 in "Pathfinder game" and the Bestiary is #6, but #2-#5 are all non-Paizo books:

The Ultimate RPG Character Backstory Guide (#2),
The Book of Random Tables: Quests: Adventure... (#3),
A Dragon Walks Into a Bar: An RPG Joke Book (#4),
The Book of Random Tables: Fantasy Role... (#5).

Among the titles Paizo produces, the Bestiary is #2, as one would expect.

Thank you for the deeper dive,that makes more sense now (even if it is ODD how Amazon is categorizing stuff).

 

[Porridge]

I've really enjoyed reading the careful analyses that people have posted here.

One new data point to add to the mix is the following annual report from Diamond Comic Distributors ("the world's largest distributor of English-language comic books, graphic novels, and related pop-culture merchandise"):

Diamond Comic Distributors Top 100 Games--Full Year 2019

I found the disparity between this list and the Amazon rankings to be very surprising.

On Amazon, the PF2 core rule book seems to reliably hover in the 2000s-5000s range (currently #2498), while the D&D players handbook reliably hovers in the top 100 (currently #30).

By contrast, on the Diamond distribution list, the top WotC title is "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS STRANGER THINGS EDITION CS", which is ranked #18, while the PF2 core book is ranked #1. (And the PF2 core book tops the list even though this ranks sales throughout all of 2019, and PF2 was only released at the end of 2019.)

I'm not sure what to make of all this. But it makes me worry about one of the (reasonable) assumptions I'd been making. Namely, that the comparative sales rankings on Amazon are indicative of their comparative sales rankings through other venues.

 

[Parmandur]

I've really enjoyed reading the careful analyses that people have posted here.

One new data point to add to the mix is the following annual report from Diamond Comic Distributors ("the world's largest distributor of English-language comic books, graphic novels, and related pop-culture merchandise"):

Diamond Comic Distributors Top 100 Games--Full Year 2019

I found the disparity between this list and the Amazon rankings to be very surprising.

On Amazon, the PF2 core rule book seems to reliably hover in the 2000s-5000s range (currently #2498), while the D&D players handbook reliably hovers in the top 100 (currently #30).

By contrast, on the Diamond distribution list, the top WotC title is "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS STRANGER THINGS EDITION CS", which is ranked #18, while the PF2 core book is ranked #1. (And the PF2 core book tops the list even though this ranks sales throughout all of 2019, and PF2 was only released at the end of 2019.)

I'm not sure what to make of all this. But it makes me worry about one of the assumptions I'd been making. Namely, that the comparative sales rankings on Amazon are indicative of their comparative sales rankings through other venues.

Diamond doesn't distribute WotC (Stranger Things is Hasbro).

 

[Bardic Dave]

I've really enjoyed reading the careful analyses that people have posted here.

One new data point to add to the mix is the following annual report from Diamond Comic Distributors ("the world's largest distributor of English-language comic books, graphic novels, and related pop-culture merchandise"):

Diamond Comic Distributors Top 100 Games--Full Year 2019

I found the disparity between this list and the Amazon rankings to be very surprising.

On Amazon, the PF2 core rule book seems to reliably hover in the 2000s-5000s range (currently #2498), while the D&D players handbook reliably hovers in the top 100 (currently #30).

By contrast, on the Diamond distribution list, the top WotC title is "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS STRANGER THINGS EDITION CS", which is ranked #18, while the PF2 core book is ranked #1. (And the PF2 core book tops the list even though this ranks sales throughout all of 2019, and PF2 was only released at the end of 2019.)

I'm not sure what to make of all this. But it makes me worry about one of the (reasonable) assumptions I'd been making. Namely, that the comparative sales rankings on Amazon are indicative of their comparative sales rankings through other venues.

Pretty sure this list only ranks things that were released in 2019.

EDIT: Parmandur's explanation is correct. I was making an assumption, but I think I was wrong.

 

[JeffB]

I've really enjoyed reading the careful analyses that people have posted here.

One new data point to add to the mix is the following annual report from Diamond Comic Distributors ("the world's largest distributor of English-language comic books, graphic novels, and related pop-culture merchandise"):

Diamond Comic Distributors Top 100 Games--Full Year 2019

I would guess then, that Paizo should probably be pretty happy that the 2 core books for PF2, ended being the entire year's best sellers through Diamond, despite being available for less than half of 2019.

At this point I don't think the comparisons between PF2 and 5E should be a thing- Anyone can tell WOTC is killing it with 5E and PF2 is not really comparable.

The real issue* is- is PF2 doing well enough amongst it's competition, its established fan-base, drawing in new players, and how this all relates to the PF1 peak.



*I say " real issue"-It's not an issue for likely any of us here other than maybe the player base size. It's just curiosity and Monday Morning Archmchair Quarterbacks for the most part.

 

[dave2008]

I've really enjoyed reading the careful analyses that people have posted here.

One new data point to add to the mix is the following annual report from Diamond Comic Distributors ("the world's largest distributor of English-language comic books, graphic novels, and related pop-culture merchandise"):

Diamond Comic Distributors Top 100 Games--Full Year 2019

I found the disparity between this list and the Amazon rankings to be very surprising.

On Amazon, the PF2 core rule book seems to reliably hover in the 2000s-5000s range (currently #2498), while the D&D players handbook reliably hovers in the top 100 (currently #30).

By contrast, on the Diamond distribution list, the top WotC title is "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS STRANGER THINGS EDITION CS", which is ranked #18, while the PF2 core book is ranked #1. (And the PF2 core book tops the list even though this ranks sales throughout all of 2019, and PF2 was only released at the end of 2019.)

I'm not sure what to make of all this. But it makes me worry about one of the (reasonable) assumptions I'd been making. Namely, that the comparative sales rankings on Amazon are indicative of their comparative sales rankings through other venues.

As @Parmandur noted and was discussed in another thread here and here in the PF forum today, Diamond doesn't distribute WotC products. WotC products are distributed primarily by Penguin Random House, not Diamond. Nonetheless, it is valuable information.

 

[dave2008]

The real issue* is- is PF2 doing well enough amongst it's competition, its established fan-base, drawing in new players, and how this all relates to the PF1 peak.

That is why the Diamond publishing information is relevant as it is the Distributor for Paizo. This is directly compating PF2 to PF1. We obviously don't not the magnitude of difference, bit PF2e is clearly selling more than PF1e.

 

[JFranklin3000]

That is why the Diamond publishing information is relevant as it is the Distributor for Paizo. This is directly compating PF2 to PF1. We obviously don't not the magnitude of difference, bit PF2e is clearly selling more than PF1e.

And I would say more importantly over only 5 months. It definitely shows me what I was already sure of the new edition was an economics decision.