Remember Kits?

[AdmundfortGeographer]

One of the things I enjoyed about 2nd edition AD&D was Kits. Not always, because there certainly were some screw-ups, and certainly those bad ones were behind some of the "reasoning" for ditching them wholesale. Examples of where Kits were done right, and they are few and far between, are the Al-qadim setting and the Red Steel/Savage Coast setting. Some say that Prestige Classes are meant to fit that niche, and some can, but IMO I have found too many cases where a Prestige Class isn't the best option for some things that once would have been a Kit.

Why I think Al-qadim and Red Steel are good examples of Kits done right is because in those settings everyone was required to take a Kit. No exeptions. If you wanted to be a free-spirit and do you own thing, there was a kit that let you do just that (in Red Steel, it was called Local Hero). In other words, Kits in those settings were very much like "roles" or "occupations". It was something a character just "slipped" in to, no taking a Feat, spending skill point, getting a new level... etc., just a list of requirements that 1st-level characters could meet.


To my point, I guess now that after all my immersion 3.0/3.5, I'm finding that I miss some of the structure that Kits could give to a well thought out campaign. Are there any D20 publishers out there that have tinkered with doing something like the old AD&D Kits in a closed campaign, i.e. one where there isn't a rules free-for-all?


Regards,
Eric Anondson

 

[Crothian]

Well, Mongoose has class concepts that are similiar to kits in all their Quint books. But other then that I can't think of anything.

 

[Geoff Watson]

In 3e, kits aren't really necessary. With the skill and feat options, you can easily distinguish two characters of the same class.

Geoff.

 

[Crothian]

He's looking to do it without the need to spend skills and feats though. The other option, and probably the best is to just take whatever "kit" might fit and turn it into a character background and then role play from that foundation. A lot of kits were roles a character of different classes could be, so role playing the differences is a simple and easy way to accomplish that.

 

[Pagan priest]

Some of the old kits were good, but some were horrible. The good ones can be done with skill and feat selection (and possibly a slight tweak to the base class) and the bad ones are and will always be, broken. Overall, I think the game is better with PrC's and templates.

The one thing that I think is deffinately lacking in the new system is the specialty priests. This cannot be replicated with a PrC, because each and every God would have a clergy that is unique, not just unique after 7th level.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Crothian has the idea

I'm not pining after the concept of Kits from the player perspective, but from the DM/world designer perspective.

Chosing Kits precisely to fullfil the flavor the DM desires for the setting, and at that, keeping a finite limit on Kit choices was a very nice thing to be able to do for a DM who wants to focus the game play into a genre.

There was a great deal of "setting flavor" built in to Kits which, sometimes, is highly difficult to duplicate with 3.0/3.5 rules. Where I admire the implementation of Kits are worlds where characters were required to take one, in these settings, the Kits focused immediately at 1st-level into the proper theme. In 3.0/3.5, what I have seen that comes closest are concepts where PrCs have been created which lure players into advancing the character into the class.

This just leaves me, as a world builder/story teller, a little unsettled. First, I don't want to have to design whole new classes, and all the balancing acts that entails... I'm not a rules grognard. Second, attaining a PrC means advancing through numerous levels, taking feats and spending skill points all before getting the PrC... What bothers me is this, what if the PC has a change of heart in his "career" and decides to follow another path, say a swashbuckler decides to become a knight. Easy(er) to do with Kits, a major pain in the ass with PrCs/Feats.

I don't want to ditch PrCs entirely. They have their place, I agree! I love the basic structure of the D20 system! I'd just love to see an example of someone who has implemented a Kit-like system on top of a D20 rules base.

IMO, there is a definite place for it.


Regards,
Eric Anondson

 

[Spatula]

Why I think Al-qadim and Red Steel are good examples of Kits done right is because in those settings everyone was required to take a Kit. No exeptions. If you wanted to be a free-spirit and do you own thing, there was a kit that let you do just that (in Red Steel, it was called Local Hero). In other words, Kits in those settings were very much like "roles" or "occupations".

Planescape had something similar as well.

It was something a character just "slipped" in to, no taking a Feat, spending skill point, getting a new level... etc., just a list of requirements that 1st-level characters could meet.

To my point, I guess now that after all my immersion 3.0/3.5, I'm finding that I miss some of the structure that Kits could give to a well thought out campaign. Are there any D20 publishers out there that have tinkered with doing something like the old AD&D Kits in a closed campaign, i.e. one where there isn't a rules free-for-all?

Not to my knowledge. Although I'm unsure of what you're looking for, exactly. It sounds kind of like you simply want a list of possible "roles" available in a campaign setting. Which is probably too limiting for most published campaign worlds, but would be easy enough to come up with on your own.

 

[Spatula]

Ah, okay, now I understand what you're getting at.

You could: Make minor modifications to the classes to better reflect how you perceive the class' role in your setting. Modify the class skill lists, the starting feats, perhaps swap around some special abilities. Ban some classes that don't fit the setting.

Or: Take a page from d20 Modern. Modern has "occupations" that give a character added options based on the character's background. Each occupation gives a few new class skills, possibly a bonus feat, and possibly a wealth bonus. You can take a look at the occupations in the Modern SRD to get an idea of what they're like:
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/msrdoccupation.rtf
In a D&D setting, you could have something similar, but set up the choices by background or by culture rather than by jobs.

Or: Just draw up a list of roles with notes about what they are and provide a list of class/skill/feat choices that are particularly apt for the role. Sword & Fist had something like that in it for some traditional warrior-type roles (gladiator, pirate, etc.).

Or: Just draw up a list of roles with notes about what they are and leave out any game effects - make it purely a role-playing thing, as Crothian suggests.

What bothers me is this, what if the PC has a change of heart in his "career" and decides to follow another path, say a swashbuckler decides to become a knight. Easy(er) to do with Kits, a major pain in the ass with PrCs/Feats.

As I recall, once you chose a kit in 2E you were stuck with it. In 3E, changing your path is simply a matter of taking levels in a different class.

 

[Pagan priest]

Ah, yes... from a DM's perspective, kits can be very handy. Back in 2nd ed, I had gone through all of the Complete _____ Handbooks and listed all of the kits that existed in my world. Very helpful for a new player to be able to slap a simple label on the character right from the start.

 

[Silveras]

The original version of kits appeared in the Dragonlance Tales of the Lance boxed set.

They did not give any extra anything. No free proficiencies. No special abilities. No hindrances. They were all about flavor and representing cultures. As I said, they did not give you extra proficiencies; instead, they TOLD you how you HAD to spend the ones you got to start.

To replicate that in 3rd Edition, look in the Player's Handbook. See where it says "starting kit" under each character class ? There you go.

The only difference is that the original kits, instead of saying "Choose a number of skills equal to X + Int bonus" would say "you get these skills." Some *might* have a couple of choices left over.

All you have to do is define additional starting kits. Model them on the ones in the Player's Handbook, but change the armor, feat, skill(s), and equipment to reflect the role or culture you want to model.

I have created new kits for each class in each possible "starting country" in my homebrew world.