Removal of the limit on Daily Magic Item power uses

[Zinovia]

I have also noticed that the players are hesitant to use the daily powers on items they have, and that they aren't all that interested in items with daily effects. As you say, they are not having fun with the loot they have found.

In order to encourage more usage of their daily items in combat, I had been considering having the utilitarian items such as the instant campsite not count against the character's daily item use. That didn't seem to go far enough however. Right now the characters have only 1 or 2 items each with daily powers. Even then, they hesitate to use them. While some are situational, others are much more useful in every fight, but I don't see them being used because of the guessing game of "Is this the right time?"

BobTheNob's solution is simple, and would go far to encourage players to use their daily items. I think it would make many of these items more fun. I'll have to look over what they have and see if any of it would be broken by allowing it's use once per encounter, but I don't think that's the case. Thanks Bob for the suggestion.

 

[Zinovia]

Our group currently doesn't use the Daily Power limits, with the only "rule" being that only one magic item per slot is allowed, so there's no swapping Armor/Belts/Gloves/whatever.

Your 1 item per slot rule does prevent the "bag of Dwarven armor" issue that others have mentioned. I'd be a bit concerned about wondrous items, unless you limit those as well. It would be theoretically possible to stock up on a bunch of items that don't fit into a slot, and hence have no limit on the number of them you can use per day.

Nonetheless it's one solution to this problem, and definitely worth considering. If I chose to allow any number of items per slot, and one use of an item per encounter, I could see the characters picking up some belts or whatever with utility powers on them (jump further, etc) and using them between combats. So perhaps the 1 item per slot restriction is worth considering there as well.

I have much to ponder, thanks for the posts.

<Edit>
Okay, pondering done. Because I have perceived a problem with the limitation on daily magic item use and feel that is reducing the fun, I think I'll be trying out a house rule along these lines:

Daily item powers can be used once per day (same as RAW).
Characters may use one daily item power per encounter in heroic tier, two in paragon tier, and three in epic tier.

Hopefully this should preserve the uniqueness and balance of the daily item powers, as each can still be used only once per day, but encourage the use of an item in each encounter. By still limiting the number of total uses in an encounter, that should prevent the problem of just using a stack of item powers in a fight rather than the character's own abilities. I may need to further restrict this by allowing the character to use only one item per slot if item swapping seems to be a problem. It isn't yet.

 

[ghrezdd]

Okay, pondering done. Because I have perceived a problem with the limitation on daily magic item use and feel that is reducing the fun, I think I'll be trying out a house rule along these lines:

Daily item powers can be used once per day (same as RAW).
Characters may use one daily item power per encounter in heroic tier, two in paragon tier, and three in epic tier.

Hopefully this should preserve the uniqueness and balance of the daily item powers, as each can still be used only once per day, but encourage the use of an item in each encounter. By still limiting the number of total uses in an encounter, that should prevent the problem of just using a stack of item powers in a fight rather than the character's own abilities. I may need to further restrict this by allowing the character to use only one item per slot if item swapping seems to be a problem. It isn't yet.

That is a good idea, Zinovia. I like that it does force some resource management upon the players without harshly penalizing them. I will give it a try and hopefully it will encourage the players to use their items.

Hopefully it will work.

 

[Garthanos]

I may need to further restrict this by allowing the character to use only one item per slot if item swapping seems to be a problem. It isn't yet.

I plan on running fairly item rare because I dont like items overwhelming their users...unless that is how the player wants it...some powerful heros in legend and fiction were overshadowed ie Arthur and Elric for example .... so I was considering allowing a characters own power useage to be swappable with one of the items powers (or even give items with daily powers a toned down version of those as an encounter power - very close to your idea in some sense)..

Though perhaps the idea that fits those legendary characters even better ... but is less related to this thread was to build a paragon path which just made them progress as the perfect wielder for an artifact

 

[CapnZapp]

Some restriction is warranted, or high-level characters will have dozens of low-level stuff stored away just in case. Which would make the game much more complex for little gain (in fact, with the cheese factor vastly overshadowing the fun factor, I'd say no gain at all).

However, having the main cost of using an item to be not being able to use another item (during that encounter) is decidedly unfun, and feels artifical and restrictive.

So what to do?

Well, to combat the "bag of dwarven armors" syndrome, I place a restriction on the slot, not just the specific item. So once you've used a Dwarven Armor:
1) that particular set of armor is used up for the day (i.e. the basic Daily limitation)
2) you can't use another daily power for the armor slot today

The other possible problem is a character who goes through an encounter, only spamming Daily item power (i.e. the christmas tree effect, where your character abilities are overshadowed by your gear). Here I place a restriction on daily item powers per encounter.

And this limit is three (3), regardless of tier. In any given encounter, you can activate up to three Daily item powers (such as from your Armor, your Staff, and one of your Wondrous Items).

Unused uses can't be saved. You got 3 uses per encounter period. No book-keeping needed or wanted.

In fact, by my system, you don't need to keep track of daily item uses at all.

You only need to keep track of three things:
1) whether a particular item has been used today or not (fairly obvious)
2) whether you have used a Daily for a given slot today or not
3) if you have used three Daily item powers in the encounter yet

A short rest resets 2) and 3) so you don't have to keep track of more than you can remember. Only 1) needs an extended rest to reset (as expected, really).

 

[Minigiant]

In my game, you start with 1+ Cha/Int mod daily powers a day.
But in my game, magic items are stubborn, lazy, or plain stupid so you have to yell at them sometimes.

"Work you stupid sword, or I'll feed you to a rust monster!" FOOM!

 

[Ork_King]

I have contemplated this same issue and thought of giving Daily Powered Items Charges, Heroic 10, Paragon 20 and Epic 30 respectively. The powers can only be activated once per day (Daily Power) but limited by the number of charges it has that level 4 item will only work 10 times... typically the levelling process makes lower level items obsolete anyways.

I have NOT had a chance to work this out in a game situation yet, so please bear with me. I will post the results once I have tried the new system...still thoughts and comments are welcome.

 

[CapnZapp]

In my game, you start with 1+ Cha/Int mod daily powers a day.

Sorry, but I don't like how Bards and Wizards can use more magic items than stupid, surly fighters. Being able to use item dailys should be equally easy (or hard) for all players, no matter which class they happen to choose to play.

I have contemplated this same issue and thought of giving Daily Powered Items Charges, Heroic 10, Paragon 20 and Epic 30 respectively. The powers can only be activated once per day (Daily Power) but limited by the number of charges it has that level 4 item will only work 10 times... typically the levelling process makes lower level items obsolete anyways.

Well, I am not sure about having to keep track of a number for each item.

You are right in that items are obsoleted as you go up in level - I'd give each item perhaps half a dozen charges regardless of tier. Make each count. Can't imagine using any item thirty times (that's thirty days) before it becomes obsolete.

But again, having to keep track of numbers is a pain. Perhaps you should consider a recharge mechanism instead? (Perhaps one where Epic items recharge on 4,5,6 while Heroic items only recharge on 6?)

 

[Pale Jackal]

Sorry, but I don't like how Bards and Wizards can use more magic items than stupid, surly fighters. Being able to use item dailys should be equally easy (or hard) for all players, no matter which class they happen to choose to play.

Absolutely. The Cha/Int mod. rule could've been used to good effect in any edition where Cha. was a dump stat, but not in 4E.

In my game, you start with 1+ Cha/Int mod daily powers a day.
But in my game, magic items are stubborn, lazy, or plain stupid so you have to yell at them sometimes.

"Work you stupid sword, or I'll feed you to a rust monster!" FOOM!

I do like the flavor, though, especially if items are magical due to bound spirits.

 

[Minigiant]

Sorry, but I don't like how Bards and Wizards can use more magic items than stupid, surly fighters. Being able to use item dailys should be equally easy (or hard) for all players, no matter which class they happen to choose to play.

There is a custom feat called "Forceful Threat" that alllows to use you STR mod.

There's also the parts when the item tries to use it's daily ON ITS OWN ON YOU when you use it too much and you have to roll a saving though the stop it.

I have to write out the setting one day.