Remove Expected Wealth Levels

[ForeverSlayer]

I want a game where i can add in magic items whenever I want not at certain levels because sometimes I feel like I have to just cram in an item or two just to be able to get them to the players without just outright saying "Okay here is a +2 sword".

The only math you really have to balance is the "to-hit" mechanic. Magic items without bonuses to hit may make a player a little more powerful but it wouldn't necessarily change the way the math works. If a CR 5 monster has an average AC of 18 and you have an average to-hit score of + 8 then having a magic item that enables you to do more damage will still be okay.

I think the hitting and getting hit parts are what needs to be looked at.

 

[Janaxstrus]

I want a game where i can add in magic items whenever I want not at certain levels because sometimes I feel like I have to just cram in an item or two just to be able to get them to the players without just outright saying "Okay here is a +2 sword".

The only math you really have to balance is the "to-hit" mechanic. Magic items without bonuses to hit may make a player a little more powerful but it wouldn't necessarily change the way the math works. If a CR 5 monster has an average AC of 18 and you have an average to-hit score of + 8 then having a magic item that enables you to do more damage will still be okay.

I think the hitting and getting hit parts are what needs to be looked at.

Staff of Power?
Ring of Wizardry?
Robe of Eyes?
Flying Carpet?

None of those are an issue? Just +1 swords and gauntlets of ogre power?
I would maintain a Ring of Wizardry is far far far more problematic than a +3 or 4 sword, personally.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Staff of Power?
Ring of Wizardry?
Robe of Eyes?
Flying Carpet?

None of those are an issue? Just +1 swords and gauntlets of ogre power?
I would maintain a Ring of Wizardry is far far far more problematic than a +3 or 4 sword, personally.

Those are nice but they don't really throw the math off. +X to hit is universal not matter what the case is. Double spells of a certain level is cool but you may not get all the mileage out of that. Staff is the same way, you are not guaranteed that it will be beneficial, same goes with everything else. A +1 will "always" be more useful with the way the game is based off of to-hit and defenses such as AC. Unless you are under extreme circumstances, most if not all creatures have AC that you try and hit. I'm not say that you let those items you mentioned go willy nilly but you are better off with the to-hit and AC part of the math being handled.

 

[Janaxstrus]

I would still disagree. A 10th level wizard with a ring of wizardry 2 will be far more dangerous to an encounter than a fighter getting a sword bumped from +2 total to +4 total bonuses.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Those are nice but they don't really throw the math off. +X to hit is universal not matter what the case is. Double spells of a certain level is cool but you may not get all the mileage out of that. Staff is the same way, you are not guaranteed that it will be beneficial, same goes with everything else. A +1 will "always" be more useful with the way the game is based off of to-hit and defenses such as AC. Unless you are under extreme circumstances, most if not all creatures have AC that you try and hit. I'm not say that you let those items you mentioned go willy nilly but you are better off with the to-hit and AC part of the math being handled.

Oh, dude, my 14th level AD&D Magic User "Questioner of All Things" would so disagree with you. The Staff of the Magi was the most awesome possible thing. First of all I can cast a whole bunch of level 1 and 2 utility powers for free, unlimited use. Now, these aren't devastating powers but they free up my lower level spell book a lot and because they're free I can use them in even marginal situations and not worry about it.

For ONE charge I get a whole slew of powerful mid-level effects. ONE CHARGE! Passwall! For 2 charges I can plane travel!!!! Talk about a 'get out of jail free' card! I can conjure elementals, I can dispel magic and be invisible ANY TIME, and I have generic offense too with fireball etc.

Then there's absorption... This is really incredibly useful. Got a spell casting bad guy that you just want to have the melee wall handle? Suck up whatever he casts at you this round. You really never run out of charges with this thing.

Honestly, the Staff of the Magi just increases an AD&D wizard's power HUGELY. The most subtle benefit is now my spell book is for the clever tricks. I can carry lesser used but situationally deadly spells or specific utility spells that will be needed. Supplement with a few scrolls for the really unlikely but handy stuff, maybe a nice wand of magic missile and your defensive items, you're all set.

The rings of wizardry and shooting stars and whatnot are pretty nice too, but I would trade basically any item for that staff.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Oh, dude, my 14th level AD&D Magic User "Questioner of All Things" would so disagree with you. The Staff of the Magi was the most awesome possible thing. First of all I can cast a whole bunch of level 1 and 2 utility powers for free, unlimited use. Now, these aren't devastating powers but they free up my lower level spell book a lot and because they're free I can use them in even marginal situations and not worry about it.

For ONE charge I get a whole slew of powerful mid-level effects. ONE CHARGE! Passwall! For 2 charges I can plane travel!!!! Talk about a 'get out of jail free' card! I can conjure elementals, I can dispel magic and be invisible ANY TIME, and I have generic offense too with fireball etc.

Then there's absorption... This is really incredibly useful. Got a spell casting bad guy that you just want to have the melee wall handle? Suck up whatever he casts at you this round. You really never run out of charges with this thing.

Honestly, the Staff of the Magi just increases an AD&D wizard's power HUGELY. The most subtle benefit is now my spell book is for the clever tricks. I can carry lesser used but situationally deadly spells or specific utility spells that will be needed. Supplement with a few scrolls for the really unlikely but handy stuff, maybe a nice wand of magic missile and your defensive items, you're all set.

The rings of wizardry and shooting stars and whatnot are pretty nice too, but I would trade basically any item for that staff.

I'm not even talking about AD&D, I was actually talking about the 3rd edition way that it was done.

Sorry you typed a long post for nothing.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I would still disagree. A 10th level wizard with a ring of wizardry 2 will be far more dangerous to an encounter than a fighter getting a sword bumped from +2 total to +4 total bonuses.

So what if your Wizard ends up choosing extra spells that still have no impact on the encounter or are almost useless in the situation?

Can you guarantee that your wizard is always going to have the right spells?

 

[Janaxstrus]

So what if your Wizard ends up choosing extra spells that still have no impact on the encounter or are almost useless in the situation?

Can you guarantee that your wizard is always going to have the right spells?

According to all the people who say 3.5 was so broken...yes. The wizard will ALWAYS have the proper spells.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

According to all the people who say 3.5 was so broken...yes. The wizard will ALWAYS have the proper spells.

It isn't that hard to have the proper spells. You're not ALWAYS guaranteed to have just that one perfect spell, but think about it, you can scribe a scroll for any given spell that is REALLY handy in some situation that may not come up. Heck, even if you DO memorize said spell scrolls are extra stuff you can cast. There's an expense, but you can hang onto that baby as long as you want to before using it. Worst case you can usually sell it.

It isn't that hard to have a good idea of what general sorts of spells are going to be effective in a given adventure. Particularly if you have alternate ways of filling certain spell niches. For instance just having a wand of magic missile means you've got a serviceable handle on doing direct damage and thwarting enemy casters. That frees you up to go for other things with memorized spells.

The example of my PC with the Staff of the Magi is a great example of how this works (even in the more limited AD&D casting/crafting environment). My list of memorized spells is quite esoteric. I don't need to worry about carrying around "blast 'em", a couple decent indirect attack spells that can double as utilities (walls and such), plus a good solid lineup of diverse utility spells and maybe one good SoD and a couple buffs do the trick. I can easily be set up like that by 5th level reasonably well. If I could have made scrolls before 9th level in AD&D I'd have been in heaven at mid levels. As it was 9th level and you're gold.

So, yes, IME having the right spells is not THAT hard. Some people do overplay the whole 'wizard can do everthing' a bit, but actual play experience shows that it isn't THAT far off. With reserve casting to fill in say one missing blank a day and the ability to make low level scrolls early on, and possibly craft a decent wand only a rather unimaginative wizard, or one that is not playing proactively, is going to be left in the lurch very often.