D&D 4E Remove level drain from 4e!!

[Treebore]

I can't speak for anyone else, TB, but my objection to level drain isn't mechanical--it's conceptual. I hate the notion of level drain, just like I hate the notion of spending XP on magic items.

Levels are not life-force. They're a measure of how much a character knows. The only way I can accept level loss is if it comes with amnesia. Other than that, I just don't like it as a concept.

That's why I want to see it gotten rid of, not because I don't know how to deal with it in-game.

I can agree with that. What would you replace it with? Or have you already replaced it in your games? If so, how? I like hearing house rules.

 

[Treebore]

If Level Draining was replaced with Constitution damage... How much damage should it cause? I'm thinking 1d4 CON damage per level it would have normally drained.

Thoughts/Comments?

I like the idea, but i would prefer a fixed value, such as 2 points of CON, or 4 points. IE 2 points/per level that would have been drained.

Plus still allow the CON to be restored if they destroy the creature within 24 hours of game time.

 

[Lanefan]

Re: Restoration:

True, but the spell does have the unfortunate "you're restored to the minimum amount of XP for your level" clause, so it sucks way more to get level-drained when you're 100 XP away from your next level than when you've just hit your new level.

I fixed that one by changing the spell so that it restored the greater of:
a) [60 + d30]% of the total ExP drained plus the same % of ExP gained since, or
b) enough ExP to put you one point into your highest level achieved.

I don't mind level loss as a mechanic at all, if it isn't overused. What always annoyed me (and hence my fix, above) was that not only did you lose the level, but any ExP you gained afterwards would get trumped by Restoration setting you to a fixed value. The side effect of my fix is that you now only need one Restoration to recover multiple lost levels. (though I did put in a clause that one casting would only restore levels in one class, so if you're multiclass and lost lots of levels you *would* need more than one Restoration)

All this talk of getting rid of level drain, getting rid of death, etc. is really starting to make me wonder if there's some who'd like to sugar-coat the game beyond reasonability...

Lanefan

 

[Green Knight]

Ooohh yeees!

Vampires have to suck blood, not levels!

Not to mention that they don't even do it with their vampiric bite. I never understood the reasoning behind a "Slam Attack". But oh well. With any luck, there won't be anything of the sort in 4E.

 

[Treebore]

Re: Restoration:I fixed that one by changing the spell so that it restored the greater of:
a) [60 + d30]% of the total ExP drained plus the same % of ExP gained since, or
b) enough ExP to put you one point into your highest level achieved.

I don't mind level loss as a mechanic at all, if it isn't overused. What always annoyed me (and hence my fix, above) was that not only did you lose the level, but any ExP you gained afterwards would get trumped by Restoration setting you to a fixed value. The side effect of my fix is that you now only need one Restoration to recover multiple lost levels. (though I did put in a clause that one casting would only restore levels in one class, so if you're multiclass and lost lots of levels you *would* need more than one Restoration)

All this talk of getting rid of level drain, getting rid of death, etc. is really starting to make me wonder if there's some who'd like to sugar-coat the game beyond reasonability...

Lanefan

I fixed that by saying, "Don't forget how many XP's you had before getting hit." Then, when they were restored, thats the value they returned to, then added on all XP's they earned since the drain/loss. Which they, and I, kept track of for when they did get their levels restored.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I can agree with that. What would you replace it with? Or have you already replaced it in your games? If so, how? I like hearing house rules.

Depends on the critter in question. In some cases, I still let them bestow negative levels, but these never become permanent. I describe it as just an overall weakening and lethargy; the victim becomes slower, weaker, befuddled.

In other cases, I replace it with Con drain. While I haven't locked myself into this 100% of the time, I tend to go with "1 negative level = 2 points of Con drain." Thus, a wight does 2 points of Con drain, while a spectre does 4. That way, each hit always has a mechanical effect--something you can't count on with 1 point of drain.

 

[Sonny]

Well, I hope they lose level drains this edition. Heck, I recall posting on the 3E newsgroup about level draining 8 years ago. *crosses fingers*

 

[Treebore]

Not to mention that they don't even do it with their vampiric bite. I never understood the reasoning behind a "Slam Attack". But oh well. With any luck, there won't be anything of the sort in 4E.

I think it makes much more sense, in the case of the vampire, to establish a grapple hold and then bite their neck as a special attack during th4e grapple and drink their blood/constitution that way. Definitely keep smore in line with the movies and Bram Stokers Dracula. Or have them use their Charm/dominate ability to have their target let them drink their blood.


So yes, in the case of Vampires, the slam attack does bother me.

 

[Roman]

Good riddance!

As a DM, I despise level drain, chiefly because it does not make any sense why draining 'life energy' should mean the loss of levels and experience. It is a disjointed and metagamey mechanic. I also dislike 'punishing' the PCs in this manner - I like levels and XP to be permanent and so do my players - in fact they have never, ever throughout the course of my 3E and 3.5E games created a single magic item or used a single effect that required them to spend XP (though in I often modify these mechanics to not require XP).

 

[danzig138]

Levels are not life-force.

I've always thought there should be some kind of "Chi" stat, kind of like in N&S. If your chi is reduced by a ceraint amount (say, half, or a quarter, or both), then you'd take some penalties. Energy drains would then be set up like any other attack - touch +xxx melee (1d4 + 1d4 energy), etc. There's enough sci-fi and fantasy with "life-force" draining creatures* that it should have a decent non-XP-related mechanic.


*Not vampires though. Vampires should drain blood. I don't like using Con loss for this, but I haven't figured out a good alternative.