Removing Divine magic?

[der_kluge]

A curious thought occurred to me.

I hear a lot of people talking about limiting arcane magic. It's either rare, or "low" or non-existent altogether.

Anyone left arcane magic as it is, and removed divine magic?

I had downloaded CMG's bundle pack, and had just gotten around to reading them, and was looking over "Lexus Toeffrun Creation Myth" and the first paragraph got me to thinking about the idea of peasants living fearful lives, and not being able to explain the sources of life and death. It's a back part of who we are as a people, this idea that there is this "unknown" thing some call God.

But, in a world with clerical magic, there is no mystery. Of course there are gods, I have my spells, don't I! It makes playing a nonbeliever pretty difficult, when you've got high level clerics walking around performing miracles (raising the dead, creating water out of thin air). That's pretty compelling.

So, this idea of removing divine magic is kind of compelling to me.

I think it would solve a lot of the common complaints I hear from people - about healing being too common, raising the dead being too common, clerics being too powerful, etc, etc. I think people are removing the wrong kind of magic from their game.

Anyone done this?

 

[Turjan]

I did it in a certain way, with using Arcana Unearthed. Technically, there's still the Greenbond and WIS-based magic, but healing is as well generally available to casters as a bit more scarce than in standard D&D. Of course, this does not follow your idea of leaving arcane magic alone .

 

[Starglim]

In the Setting Search I proposed a world with psionics ascendant, and both divine and arcane magic limited in use. "Priests" and "cults" would more often refer to psionic traditions than divine. If, for the sake of discussion, NPC clerics have half the level (rounded down) generated by the standard "Highest Level Locals" table, any who can cast 5th level spells will be exceedingly rare.

 

[Crothian]

not removed but severly limited. Cleric and Druids could only cast from domains they knew. Paladins and Rangers had their spells remoived. It worked out much better

 

[ajanders]

Magic presence and absence

I'm not brave enough to remove all divine magic from my games: that leaves the bard as the only healer -- and they aren't very strong healers.
And I like divine healing, especially. Do you think your game honestly benefits from roleplaying a three week stretch in the pseudo-medieval equivalent of the Mayo clinic?
It's more enjoyable-- and allows more action -- to let someone cast a spell and get people back on their feet.
Now, I do find clerics can get a little homogenous. I like the spontaneous casting cleric from Unearthed Arcana or the evangelist from Dragon.
I find that limits the amount of healing any one cleric can do because every healing spell they know is a divination, buff, or blasting they don't know. Adventuring clerics tend, therefore, to keep some basic cures and lesser restoration, but for something like a raise dead or cure blindness the party needs to find a specialist NPC.
Alternately, I'm experimenting with the generic spellcaster class from Unearthed Arcana and adding feats to represent special divine gifts and the social benefits that come from holding ecclesiastic rank. Thus there is no "divine magic", just magic that may be cast by a fellow from the local Pelorite lodge. Now there may be the fellow down the road who glows like the sun periodically, but that's not "magic", per se...it's a supernatural ability.

 

[EricNoah]

I'm considering putting all of the spells into one big pile and just letting casters choose whatever (maybe pull out a few for flavor purposes -- the Divination spell, the Commune spell, etc.). I think it might solve the "I don't want to be the cleric" problem I see frequently.

 

[AIM-54]

I'm considering putting all of the spells into one big pile and just letting casters choose whatever (maybe pull out a few for flavor purposes -- the Divination spell, the Commune spell, etc.). I think it might solve the "I don't want to be the cleric" problem I see frequently.

I've thought about that, as well. I like the idea of a unified spell list and I think it makes spellcasters ultimately more flexible overall. There are a few spells I'd probably even kill completely.

 

[beaver1024]

I'm considering putting all of the spells into one big pile and just letting casters choose whatever (maybe pull out a few for flavor purposes -- the Divination spell, the Commune spell, etc.). I think it might solve the "I don't want to be the cleric" problem I see frequently.

I've been recommending this for years.

 

[Kesh]

Yep. Easiest solution is just to eliminate the distinction between arcane and divine spells and/or eliminate the divine classes. Arcana Evolved is another possibility, as it uses a blended spell system from the start, or Blue Rose which is another blended system (meaning magic is just magic, no divide).

 

[Arkhandus]

I've removed all divine magic-related stuff from one of my homebrews that I plan to run soon. The gods all wiped eachother out, the mortal world was ravaged and barely survived, and the only divine power left in the world is the inkling in each soul, too weak to be channeled (not even for monkish ki powers). Divine magic items, divine artifacts, and divine locations were all destroyed or disenchanted. The capacity to heal injuries and afflictions is extremely rare, basically just what bards can do and what the Heal skill can accomplish. Outsiders, elementals, fey, and undead are scarce, as most were destroyed with the rest of the world's divine essence. Few yet live, and are almost completely devoid of power, though undead can still be created through arcane means at least. All divine-magic-using and similar classes are gone. No clerics, druids, monks, paladins, or rangers, no shamans or shugenja or sohei or samurai. Never any psionics in the setting (though my other homebrews usually do have psionics). Just mundane classes and the arcane casters. I might ban sorcerers though, not certain as of yet.

I've also had an (less-developed as of yet) idea lingering in my head for the past year or two, about running a campaign with no magic and just psionics. Still haven't thought it out much and dunno if I'll run with it.