Request for help: Simulacrum

[calypso15]

Hey guys,

So, my sorcerer just used his scroll of Simulacrum with the remains of an advanced Adult green dragon we faced. I statted him up to the best of my ability, but it's so unclear. I don't suppose anyone could either a) Stat a simulacrum of an Adult Green Dragon with 10 levels of sorcerer or b) Take a look at what I have and tell me how close it is?

My main questions are:

1) Are ability scores affected?

2) How do you figure size-dependant abilities? For example, as an adult dragon, it gets Suggestion 3/day. Is this affected by similacrum?

3) Does it get the SR of the original?

4) What about caster level? Normally the CL of an adult Green dragon is 5, plus the similacrum gets 6 (of 10) sorcerer levels. Is the 5 unaffected, so that the similacrum's CL is 11?

Thanks,
Calypso

 

[calypso15]

So, what I have is:

HD: 18 (12 dragon, 6 sorcerer)
Size: Huge
HP: 220
Str: 27 Dex: 10 Con: 21 Int: 16 Wis: 17 Cha: 16
AC: 27 (-2 size, +19 natural)
Attack: +21 (+12 (dragon) + 3 (sorcerer) + 8 (str) - 2 (size))
Fort: + 15 (+8 (dragon) + 2 (sorcerer) + 5 (con))
Ref: +10 (+8 (dragon) + 2 (sorcerer) + 0 (dex))
Wil: +16 (+8 (dragon) + 5 (sorcerer) + 3 (wis))
Breath Weapon: 50 ft cone of acid: 12d6 (DC 24 (10 + 9 (half HD) + 5 (con))
Frightful Presence: DC 22 (10 + 9 (half HD) + 3 (cha)
Spell Resistance: 21
Stuff: DR 5/+1, Suggestion 3/day, CL 11 (5 + 6 (sorcerer))
Attacks: Bite/Claw/Claw/Wing/Wing/Tail Slap/Crush

Calypso

 

[meleeguy]

Well, I'll take a stab at it. An adult green has 20HD, so your creation will have 10HD + 5 levels of sorcerer. Your creation will have the "feats, skill ranks, and special abilities" of a 10HD, or very young green. The adult green abilities scores stand as is. Stays huge. No SR or frightful presence. The 5 levels of sorcerer are then tacked on, and do not affect the new creature's special abilities.

Anyway, that is the direction the rules suggest to me. I'm sure others will have different opinions/insights, and I look forward to reading them.

 

[da_deadman]

I do not think it matters that you have a dead dragon, only the material components of the spell matter.

Its power is determined by the maximum HD that is relative to your caster level.

 

[Jeremy]

Correct. You could make a simalcra of a 50 HD Solar if you were so inclined and happened to have an outrageous enough caster level to do it. No where in the spell does it say you have to cast it on something present.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, I'll take a stab at it. An adult green has 20HD, so your creation will have 10HD + 5 levels of sorcerer. Your creation will have the "feats, skill ranks, and special abilities" of a 10HD, or very young green. The adult green abilities scores stand as is. Stays huge. No SR or frightful presence. The 5 levels of sorcerer are then tacked on, and do not affect the new creature's special abilities.

I think you are wrong - the SR and frighful presence stays. This is STILL an adult green dragon, it's just one with less hit dice. The frightful presence DC is only 18 instead of 23 (loses 5). He still has suggestion. His SR is still 21, because it's never linked to hit dice. I think the DC vs his breath weapon is only 20, not 25.

I'm pretty sure he's still got his base "dragon sorceror" caster level and spells as a 5th level sorceror (because they are never linked to hit dice, just creature type). PLUS 5 levels of actual sorceror stacked on top of that.

And why did they need the corpse? Because the material component for the spell is "a piece of the creature to be duplicated".

Which is the only reason that eschew material components rocks the house.

 

[azmodean]

And why did they need the corpse? Because the material component for the spell is "a piece of the creature to be duplicated".

Which is the only reason that eschew material components rocks the house.

Except I'd rule that the piece of the creature to be duplicated has a worth over 1 gp for the purposes of the feat.

 

[meleeguy]

Well, the spell creates an "illusory duplicate", not an adult green dragon, but I see your point.

All of the special abilities you mention are associated in the dragon data tables by age. I don't see this information presented anywhere else, so they must be considered first sources. But, the rules do not explicitly state exactly what a "10 HD illusionary duplicte of an adult green dragon" is. We are left to make inferences.

I don't see how to resolve which is more important, age or HD, since the entry for green dragons does not express a preference (except by order of presentation). I can only suggest that since the spell discription specifically limits special abilities(SR, FP) by HD, that the limitation is the designer's intent.

I willing to be convinced otherwise with a good argument, however.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Except I'd rule that the piece of the creature to be duplicated has a worth over 1 gp for the purposes of the feat.

Unless, of course, it's one of the many creature pieces already contained in your spell component pouch as freebies.

That's an awful lot of critter bits...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, the spell creates an "illusory duplicate", not an adult green dragon, but I see your point.

It creates an illusionary duplicate of an adult green dragon.

All of the special abilities you mention are associated in the dragon data tables by age. I don't see this information presented anywhere else, so they must be considered first sources. But, the rules do not explicitly state exactly what a "10 HD illusionary duplicte of an adult green dragon" is. We are left to make inferences.

It's a 10hd version of the listed creature.

I don't see how to resolve which is more important, age or HD, since the entry for green dragons does not express a preference (except by order of presentation).

Here's a good one. Would you expect a simulacrum of a person to create a younger version of that person? If you simulacra a 30-year old, do you end up with a 3-year old (the equivalent if we're talking about an adult green to a 10hd very-young green)?

I can only suggest that since the spell discription specifically limits special abilities(SR, FP) by HD, that the limitation is the designer's intent.

Except that for most creatures their abilities are not linked to their hit dice in any direct fashion.

I willing to be convinced otherwise with a good argument, however.

Good. I have supplied one.