[request/rant] To all reviewers, amateur and pro...

[Crothian]

It may not matter to you if you received the product for free or purchased it, but it does to me. I am going to adjust my opinion of the review based on the facts that I have available to me, and by omitting facts you are limiting the information that I have to work with.

Why does it matter to you how I got the item? Does trading for it make a difference instead of buying it? What about if I buy it at a discount? Does it matter if the money I use to buy the book comes from a gift verse my own paycheck? Do books that I review that are given to me as birthday or Chrismtas gifts differ from the ones publishers send me to review?

I don't see how I got the book changes what the book is about or what the review is about.

 

[shaylon]

patience is a virtue seldom practiced.

took me 7 years to find enough players for my current OD&D campaign. i can wait. so far i've found a few that i read and don't disagree with. but i haven't found one that thinks like me yet. i have found several i am the polar opposite too.

I should have excluded you specifically in my commentary. Based on reading your comments over the last year or so I would love to see you start writing reviews. I think you would give a perspective that we don't see here, which is why you got my vote as an Ennies judge.

Now post a review so I can see if I am right!

-Shay

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why does it matter to you how I got the item? Does trading for it make a difference instead of buying it? What about if I buy it at a discount? Does it matter if the money I use to buy the book comes from a gift verse my own paycheck? Do books that I review that are given to me as birthday or Chrismtas gifts differ from the ones publishers send me to review?

I don't see how I got the book changes what the book is about or what the review is about.

Because publishers, being run by humans, tend to give material to reviewers who like their material. There are some exceptions to this -- giving stuff to John Cooper is more about "this is how much faith we have in our material" than it is "he always loves every monster book he lays his hands on" -- but it's common enough to be a perceived problem.

I haven't noticed it being an issue here, but at the other big RPG review site, there are several regular reviewers who seem incapable of saying something negative about a book they received for free, and the revelation that they were getting it for free had to be essentially beaten out of them.

You may not find it a relevant thing to disclose, but it increases your credibility to disclose it. People want to know what they feel is important information about the reviewer.

 

[Crothian]

Because publishers, being run by humans, tend to give material to reviewers who like their material.

This has not been true in my experince. One publisher who I do like and gave a lot of postive reviews to stopped sending me stuff, and other publishers who I mostly give average to below average reviews to sends me I think everything. He at one point said he was determined to get a five star review from me. Actually, I've had a few publishers tell me that.

 

[der_kluge]

Is there a specific incident that has enraged you, Mouse? If so, I'd like to know what it is.

I don't have a great list of reviews to my name, but of those, I read most of them - I didn't read every individual spell description in my C&C review, and some people (perhaps rightfully so) called me on it. Fair enough. Second product I didn't read all of, but reviewed anyway was Wilderlands. The thing is 400 pages, and IMHO, a fair review of the product doesn't need to encompass the entire work. I felt like my review was in-depth, and thorough, even though I only read through the first 4 chapters or so. The rest is just more of the same, really. City State of the Invincible Overlord is the same kind of thing, even though I've never reviewed that one. And in this instance, I mentioned that I had not read the entire product right up front.

 

[Psion]

Because publishers, being run by humans, tend to give material to reviewers who like their material.

You'd think so, but I have seen some curious exceptions to this.

 

[Crothian]

I don't have a great list of reviews to my name, but of those, I read most of them - I didn't read every individual spell description in my C&C review, and some people (perhaps rightfully so) called me on it. Fair enough. Second product I didn't read all of, but reviewed anyway was Wilderlands. The thing is 400 pages, and IMHO, a fair review of the product doesn't need to encompass the entire work. I felt like my review was in-depth, and thorough, even though I only read through the first 4 chapters or so.

I can understand this, but I read everything cover to cover. I feel like if I start cuitting corners then I might start not doing enough.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Why does it matter to you how I got the item? Does trading for it make a difference instead of buying it? What about if I buy it at a discount? Does it matter if the money I use to buy the book comes from a gift verse my own paycheck? Do books that I review that are given to me as birthday or Chrismtas gifts differ from the ones publishers send me to review?

I don't see how I got the book changes what the book is about or what the review is about.

***Before I respond, I want to state that I am not questioning your integrity, but am stating my opinion as advice and why I have this opinion. Also, I can see that by placing this on a public forum I am inviting others to question your work and for that I do apologize as it is not my intent.***

Whether or not you include the information shouldn't matter (heck a reviewer could lie about how he received the product), but it does. Basically, I may not judge your review any differently, but what I see is this:

1) Review states nothing of how product was obtained.

2) Review guidelines state that you should include how the product was obtained.

3) I find out later that it was free from the publisher.

4) Is there a conflict of interest, a payoff or just a gift and nothing else.

If you state up front how you received the product, I will think - well, he may be getting paid off, but he at least he came out and said it, so he doesn't appear to have anything to hide. It isn't anything personal Crothian, but I have been burned by omission in the past. So, I am becoming a jaded and cynical consumer.

Do I think that you should include that information? Yes.

Do I think that your motives are shady for not including it? No, it appears that you want to make the review "more" neutral so that people don't think about how you received the product when analyzing your review. It only becomes an issue when someone finds out how you received the product and begins to question why you would keep that from us.

It shouldn't affect the message of your review, but it does alter perception and that is all that many have to go on.

Note: Through my life, I have been a fairly unquestioning and admittedly gullible person. I have often read people's rants about how you should never take things at face value, should always question the validity of stuff and so on. I would alternately laugh at the paranoia of some people or be ashamed at my gullibility. It wasn't until being burned many times by the lies of others (many lies of omission) that I have become more jaded (I am still probably too unquestioning).

 

[Voadam]

Well then perhaps many of the review sites should frame their reviews as such. Have a standard, well visible disclaimer pointing out that "really, we'll take reviews from anyone who posesses a keyboard and a little chutzpah"

I mean, just because all those hardcore ENworld personalities know the score doesn't mean the average Joe gamer does.

You mean something like the following from the entry page for the review section here:

"Although EN World has staff reviewers (click here for their contact details), the majority of the reviews here are written by fans and visitors to EN World. Anybody is welcome to write a review, although there are some basic rules and guidelines which I ask you to follow (see the help section)."

 

[Crothian]

***Before I respond, I want to state that I am not questioning your integrity, but am stating my opinion as advice and why I have this opinion. Also, I can see that by placing this on a public forum I am inviting others to question your work and for that I do apologize as it is not my intent.***

My work is a public place and people are free to question it whenever they want. I know its your opinion and I'm always curious to hear what and why people think about reviewers.

If you state up front how you received the product, I will think - well, he may be getting paid off, but he at least he came out and said it, so he doesn't appear to have anything to hide. It isn't anything personal Crothian, but I have been burned by omission in the past. So, I am becoming a jaded and cynical consumer.

What is wrong for getting paid to do a review? I don't get paid for them, but I'm just curious. I can spend anywhere from 3 to 30 hours (Arcana Evolved) working on a review. I think its nice to get soemthing something in return for my time.

Do I think that your motives are shady for not including it? No, it appears that you want to make the review "more" neutral so that people don't think about how you received the product when analyzing your review. It only becomes an issue when someone finds out how you received the product and begins to question why you would keep that from us.

Truthfully, its not something I place in the review because It doesn't matter to me. I try to place things in the review that matter to the review. I've also never had anyone ask about it. I've gotten afair share of complaints but never this one.

It shouldn't affect the message of your review, but it does alter perception and that is all that many have to go on.

I'm still not sure on how the perception of the reader changes. Is a review of a book I bought assumed to be more honest then one I got for free? How is the perception being altered?