Requesting Paladin build advice

[Elder-Basilisk]

Quite true. But I think tha a paladin/knight of the chalice can still get by quite comfortably on 4 skill points/level. As a paladin/knight of the chalice, you don't get much mount progression, so you can afford to reduce your ride skill (which is primarily useful for quickmounting and mounted combat negation of hits on your mount) and lose handle animal completely. As you increase in levels, a non-advancing mount will rapidly become a liability rather than an asset.

If I were going about designing a Knight of the Chalice, I might try something like this:

A. Paladin 7/Knight of the Chalice 5
Skill points: Diplomacy 15, Intimidate 5, Kn: Rel 10, Kn: Planes 10 (5 ranks cc), Ride 5, Sense Motive 15
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Longsword, Divine Might, Improved Critical: Longsword, Extra Turning

B. Ranger 2/Paladin 5/Knight of the Chalice 5
Skill Points: Diplomacy 15, Kn: Nature 5, Kn: Rel 10, Kn Planes 10 (5 cross class ranks), Listen 5, Ride 5, Sense Motive 15, Spot 5, Search 5, Survival 5
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, Track (b), Rapid Shot (b), Improved Toughness*, Divine Might, Favored Power Attack, Improved Critical: Scimitar

*There isn't a really obvious feat to take here. Improved Toughness is always nice, as is any saving throw focused feat. Improved Sunder might also be nice if you fight many weapon wielding demons or foes. (It would also set you up for Combat Brute at level 15).

Elder-Basilisk,

One quick point about your analysis of skill points: a requirement for Knight of the Chalice is 5 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), which is cross-class for Paladins and therefore eats up 10 points.

Also, I'm trying to be somewhat realistic about building a 12th level character, so I'm assigning skill points (using HeroForge) level by level when they most likely would have been assigned had the character been created at level 1. Given that, I put 2 points per level into Knowledge (the planes) at levels 4-8.

Justin

 

[Thanee]

This is how I would distribute the stats:

Str 16 (15 + 1 @ lvl4)
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 13
Cha 17 (15 + 1 @ lvl8, 12)

If you will never play as far as to reach 16, the last point should go into Wis, of course.

4 skill points per level should be enough to cover your bases.

Wis 13 allows you to cast all your spells without an item (tho, a Wis boosting item would be nice for the bonus spell). Some pearl of power might allow you to use your spells more often (there are a few really good ones in the Paladin list, like Bless Weapon (good-aligned and auto-confirmation for threats/crits)).

Str and Cha should be boosted with items, and boosting Con never hurts (at least +2).
A vest of resistance [CA] is also important to have.
A glove of storing is nice to hold the lance, if you have some mounted combat feats.
Cheap ring of protection and amulet of natural armor are good ways to boost your AC.
A full plate + heavy shield is usually the best way to go. Tho, it might be a hindrance in the setting, maybe some magical enhancement could help (calling, comfort, dunno where those were from, tho).

If you already have Mounted Combat/Ride-by-Attack you definitely want Spirited Charge, which is incredibly nasty with a lance.

Power Attack/Divine Might is also great (Cleave is good, but not really needed at this level).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

There's plenty of solid level/building advice there, so I'll pop at a different angle... Equipment!

You're never going to be a tumbly acrobatic sort of fighter, so I'd consider changing your armour around:

With your low dex, full plate will give you an extra +3 AC for a -3 armour check penalty. A choice I'd strongly consider.

As for a shield:

Large shield would give you an extra point of AC, but would leave you without a free hand - you'd need to put it or your weapon down to cast any spells. Could be worthwhile, but probably not.

Depending on how you wish to crunch things up, a buckler could be more useful than a small shield. That way you can switch to using the longsword in 2 hands if you want to increase damage at the cost of defense/accuracy. You'd lose the AC bonus from the shield and take a -1 to hit, but it doesn't take any time. Only worth it if you take power attack.

I'd also consider making the sword out of a special material. Cold Iron or Adamantine are both good choices that, IIRC, will cost you 2000 GP. Lots of evil stuff has it's damage reduction defeated by Cold Iron. Adamantine is nice if you ever have need to sunder something... depending on the cheese levels you could also use it to demolish doors, walls and the like.

Personally I'd favour a +3 sword over a +1 holy sword... if you're going to sometimes use it in 2 hands and/or fight non evil stuff now and again. I'd go into the maths, but I've got to go!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Others question that might affect what to do: Will you have a clearly defined role in combat? Do you know what other styles of characters are in the party?

 

[Justin]

Quite true. But I think tha a paladin/knight of the chalice can still get by quite comfortably on 4 skill points/level. As a paladin/knight of the chalice, you don't get much mount progression, so you can afford to reduce your ride skill (which is primarily useful for quickmounting and mounted combat negation of hits on your mount) and lose handle animal completely. As you increase in levels, a non-advancing mount will rapidly become a liability rather than an asset.

I'll discuss the mount issue with my DM. Perhaps I should just eschew a mount and focus on the evil-slaying?

If I were going about designing a Knight of the Chalice, I might try something like this:

A. Paladin 7/Knight of the Chalice 5
Skill points: Diplomacy 15, Intimidate 5, Kn: Rel 10, Kn: Planes 10 (5 ranks cc), Ride 5, Sense Motive 15
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Longsword, Divine Might, Improved Critical: Longsword, Extra Turning

This isn't possible since Knight of the Chalice has a BAB +8 requirement.

B. Ranger 2/Paladin 5/Knight of the Chalice 5
Skill Points: Diplomacy 15, Kn: Nature 5, Kn: Rel 10, Kn Planes 10 (5 cross class ranks), Listen 5, Ride 5, Sense Motive 15, Spot 5, Search 5, Survival 5
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, Track (b), Rapid Shot (b), Improved Toughness*, Divine Might, Favored Power Attack, Improved Critical: Scimitar

*There isn't a really obvious feat to take here. Improved Toughness is always nice, as is any saving throw focused feat. Improved Sunder might also be nice if you fight many weapon wielding demons or foes. (It would also set you up for Combat Brute at level 15).

Same problem here. However, why the second level in Ranger? I don't see either of the Ranger's fighting styles being appropriate for this character? So wouldn't Rgr1/Pal7/KoC4 or Rgr1/Pal8/KoC3 be better? And is Favored Power Attack in Complete Warrior?

Justin

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Favored Enemy and Divine Might have big synergies with TWF. Ditto for Rapid Shot.

It is not the way I would go, but it is a reasonable tactic for pumping up offense. I prefer hitting them with the big Smite Evil Power Attack, but that is harder to set up if your mount is weak or you do not use a 2-handed weapon.

 

[Justin]

Others question that might affect what to do: Will you have a clearly defined role in combat? Do you know what other styles of characters are in the party?

I'll be the primary tank, though the shield dwarf cleric will also be doing a good amount of melee. IIRC, the other two are a psion (don't remember what kind) and a shadow adept.

The other three players have been playing this campaign since level 1, I think, so I'm coming in to the middle of this fiendish orc invasion. I think they might have had another player leave some time last year and they're just recently this year ramping up again.

Justin

 

[Justin]

Favored Enemy and Divine Might have big synergies with TWF. Ditto for Rapid Shot.

Well, being a tanking Paladin, I should probably have a shield. Also, and this is in response to a question about armor and environment, we're in desert climates (Unther, I think), so full plate would be pretty arduous, which is why I went with +3 breast plate and a +1 light steel shield initially.

It is not the way I would go, but it is a reasonable tactic for pumping up offense. I prefer hitting them with the big Smite Evil Power Attack, but that is harder to set up if your mount is weak or you do not use a 2-handed weapon.

I don't think that much of my time will be spent on my mount, so I will probably focus on fighting on my own two feet.

Justin

 

[focallength]

if your DM is allowing the book of exalted deeds look at becoming a saint its a +2 LA and it requires 3 exalted feats, plus a great sacrifice (something you could easily write into your background) you get all kinds of cool stuff including damage reduction 10 the gods actively listen to you, so you get the equivilent of minor spells cast by your god ability score increases, damage reduction 5 all elements,and a ton of more stuff I cant recall at the moment but its totally worth it for a paladin. Its not a class you become a native outsider.

 

[Justin]

There's plenty of solid level/building advice there, so I'll pop at a different angle... Equipment!

You're never going to be a tumbly acrobatic sort of fighter, so I'd consider changing your armour around:

With your low dex, full plate will give you an extra +3 AC for a -3 armour check penalty. A choice I'd strongly consider.

See my above reply about full plate vs. breast plate.

As for a shield:

Large shield would give you an extra point of AC, but would leave you without a free hand - you'd need to put it or your weapon down to cast any spells. Could be worthwhile, but probably not.

Depending on how you wish to crunch things up, a buckler could be more useful than a small shield. That way you can switch to using the longsword in 2 hands if you want to increase damage at the cost of defense/accuracy. You'd lose the AC bonus from the shield and take a -1 to hit, but it doesn't take any time. Only worth it if you take power attack.

Really, I'd prefer to go shieldless and go either TWF (in which case 2 levels of Ranger might not be a bad idea) or two-handed weapon (but bastard swords and greatswords are apparently not all that common in our region). My shield now gives me a +3 bonus and has the light fortification bonus (25% chance to negate crits and sneak attacks), and I can always get even better shields in the future. But OTOH, other items could be gained to offset not having a shield, like some kind of cloak and/or bracers. Hmm, I'll discuss this with my DM.

I'd also consider making the sword out of a special material. Cold Iron or Adamantine are both good choices that, IIRC, will cost you 2000 GP. Lots of evil stuff has it's damage reduction defeated by Cold Iron. Adamantine is nice if you ever have need to sunder something... depending on the cheese levels you could also use it to demolish doors, walls and the like.

Personally I'd favour a +3 sword over a +1 holy sword... if you're going to sometimes use it in 2 hands and/or fight non evil stuff now and again. I'd go into the maths, but I've got to go!

I've added keen to my +1 holy scimitar, but again, I'll go over the equipment again with my DM.

Justin