D&D General Requesting permission to have something cool

[Micah Sweet]

Their release schedule, their plainly stubborn refusal to add the content, would seem to disagree with this analysis.

I'm saying that WotC is making what they want to make, and not making what they don't, and would be perfectly fine if no one else made those things either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not going to happen. WoTC doesn't have a monopoly on brewing. Not any more.

Quite true. I'm not exactly crying in WotC's ale here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's the norm.

DMs typically do not allow outside content not printed in an actual book or heavily praised and popular by the online community.

How exactly do you know what the norm is, hmmm?

 

[Corinnguard]

Quite true. I'm not exactly crying in WotC's ale here.

Well their ale has aged poorly, I am afraid.

 

[CreamCloud0]

You are correct. The fighter (and rogue, and to a lesser degree the barbarian) should NOT be mundane. They should be magical.

the fighter, rogue, barb (and tentatively monk) should be mundane, what they should not be is ordinary OR explicitly magical/supernatural (barring subclasses who's point is to be such), trained strength, mastered skill, forged steel, all of these are mundane, and all of these should be enough to take down a dragon with in worlds where dragons are allowed to exist.

being mundane does not mean you cannot be extraordinary but being extraordinary does not mean you have to be supernatural.

The fighter should never be "dude with a sword".

this is explicitly the class fantasy that i believe half the people who pick fighter play it for, to be 'just the guy with the sword and shield or spear, axe or hammer' who through pure mastery of combat keeps up with the wizard throwing around fireballs and hypnotic patterns or the druid who turns into a bear and brings the forest alive to attack.

The fighter should be "dude with supernatural ability who channels it into his sword". He should be born of the Gods, have dragon's blood in his veins or heir to the giant's legacy. He should breathe fire, sheath his weapon in energy, sprout wings and fly, and at 18th level have abilities that start "once per day, when you die..."

half of these sound more like descriptions of lineages than anything to do with fighters, why would anyone with those traits not equally turn to become a cleric or artificer or any other class? 'born of gods: aasimar' 'dragon's blood: dragonborn' 'heir of the giant's legacy: goliath' and i don't know since when breathing fire or sprouting wings is thematically connected to mastery of combat (again, barring a specific dragon themed style/subclass)

you only listed two abilities that i thought sounded fighter-like which i bolded: nigh supernatural skill with weaponry and enhancing their weapon, the 'when you die X happens' is something i can imagine the basis for abilities that any class might have and iirc was something that one of either 3/.5 or 4e did have for all classes?

the fighter to me should be the guy who can fight with any weapon from blades to bows, boomerangs to barstools, or just bare fists and still take on an entire crowd and win, the guy who can lead pesant farmers for battle and have them be as effective as town soldiers, the guy who can grapple and throw a giant, who can plot out the most advantageous places and strategy for battle and improv on the fly, who could march for three days and three nights straight carrying all their gear and be ready to throw down as well at the end of it as the start, to snipe whichever apple you decide off the tree on the other side of field, who throws greatswords like they're naught but daggers.

A cleric isn't a village priest. A rogue isn't a common pickpocket. A wizard isn't a local scribe. A fighter shouldn't be a town guard of infantryman. Mundanity is for NPCs.

a NPC isn't an inherently different creature to an adventurer, oh we might build them with different mechanics but there's no reason those examples couldn't be true, and adventurers had to be learning somewhere before they became adventurers, there's probably alot more level 1-3 classes among the general populus than DMs bother to put in

 

[Micah Sweet]

WOTC doesn't want to print content that competes directly with the PHB or DMG content unless it's a fix to keep PHB sales flowing.

3PPs believe it is easily to sell Magic Knight Fighter subclasses and caster classes than Non-supernatural Fighter subclasses.

I agree on WotC, but it's just not universally true, as you imply, that 3pp don't make non-supernatural options. I mentioned Level Up, for example.

 

[Minigiant]

How exactly do you know what the norm is, hmmm?

If it weren't the norm...this thread would not exist.

This thread is "DMs wouldn't allow my homebrew stuff" version 8.0.

 

[Oofta]

It might be important for WotC not to try and occupy all the available design space (in fact I'm quite sure it is), but I'm far from convinced it's important to WotC. I think Hasbro would be perfectly happy to see all 3pp dry up and blow away.

We know that some would at least like a share of the profits for successful products. One of the reasons to make the core systems open is so that 3PPs can throw out D&D related ideas and concepts, frequently without significant risk (the other being that it's legally dubious how much they could actually control). A lot of 3PP are just a side gig or creative expression for people, in many but not all, cases it's not their livelihood. WOTC can take a look at 3PPs that are successful and decide if they want to incorporate any of the concepts. Which, to tie it back to the thread if there were some supplements out there that had mythic fighters that were wildly popular I suspect we would see some movement in that direction.

But having 3PPs that extend D&D instead of actually building their own systems is likely a big part of D&Ds dominance. On the other hand don't forget that as much as D&D may be the 800 pound gorilla in the room it's still a pretty small room.

 

[Minigiant]

I agree on WotC, but it's just not universally true, as you imply, that 3pp don't make non-supernatural options. I mentioned Level Up, for example.

Level up rewrites 5e.

 

[Corinnguard]

being mundane does not mean you cannot be extraordinary but being extraordinary does not mean you have to be supernatural.

This is exactly what most adventurers happen to be. Extraordinary. They are far from ordinary as you can get without being a deity.