Resisting Diplomacy

[cmanos]

remember also that Diplomacy takes at least 1 minute. He's not going to be swaying people's attitudes in the middle of combat.

 

[Turanil]

Even if you got a +45 in Diplomacy, I won't let you put your big d... in my a... however well you try to convince me of it. Don't see why it wouldn't be the same for a NPC...

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Friendly doesn't mean he's still not obligated to kill you.

 

[WayneLigon]

Even if you got a +45 in Diplomacy, I won't let you put your big d... in my a... however well you try to convince me of it. Don't see why it wouldn't be the same for a NPC...

Since a result better than 40 is up into doing the 'normally impossible', yeah, actually, you would. He'd be so damn charming that he'd be able to change your mind about almost anything, even that, or get you to go along with it even once given the time and circumstances (and someone who is that good of a manipulator will make circumstances that will probably add to his check). In flesh and blood interactions (as oppossed to the 'net), people do change other people's mind, getting them to do things they normally would not do.

 

[Templeton580]

*

 

[Psion]

Generally, I have my own mind about how my villains will behave and some people have limited repsonsiveness to chatter. At best, some villains might find you entertaining to chatter with and keep you around. "Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."

If you want to run it more strictly rules bound, I highly recommend you incorporate the variant that Rich Burlew (of Order of the Stick Fame) has on his website:

http://www.giantitp.com/Func0010.html

 

[Henry]

Since a result better than 40 is up into doing the 'normally impossible', yeah, actually, you would. He'd be so damn charming that he'd be able to change your mind about almost anything, even that, or get you to go along with it even once given the time and circumstances (and someone who is that good of a manipulator will make circumstances that will probably add to his check).

I have to disagree - the rules don't make that assumption, and "impossible" is not even used. As it says, "Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good." Very helpful, yes; take risks, yes; sacrfice themselves or do something totally opposed to their nature, no. To use an extreme example (and get away from Turanil's example ) all the convincing in the world won't make the kind-hearted peasant strangle his daughter in her sleep... unless he's already entertained the possibility.

 

[Turanil]

Even if you got a +45 in Diplomacy, I won't let you put your big d... in my a... however well you try to convince me of it. Don't see why it wouldn't be the same for a NPC...

Since a result better than 40 is up into doing the 'normally impossible', yeah, actually, you would. He'd be so damn charming that he'd be able to change your mind about almost anything, even that, or get you to go along with it even once given the time and circumstances (and someone who is that good of a manipulator will make circumstances that will probably add to his check). In flesh and blood interactions (as oppossed to the 'net), people do change other people's mind, getting them to do things they normally would not do.

I have to disagree - the rules don't make that assumption, and "impossible" is not even used. As it says, "Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good." Very helpful, yes; take risks, yes; sacrfice themselves or do something totally opposed to their nature, no. To use an extreme example (and get away from Turanil's example ) all the convincing in the world won't make the kind-hearted peasant strangle his daughter in her sleep... unless he's already entertained the possibility.

Aaah... Thanks Henry! I felt worried for a few moments. By the way, when I was saying your big d... in my a... , I was of course saying your big dragon in my (wizard's) abode. No sane wizard would allow it.

 

[painandgreed]

Another suggestion, depending on who they are dealing with is that the character using diplomacy is going to have to say things that will impress the NPC. What they PC wants to say won't do it. He's going to have to say what the NPC wants to hear. So a character trying to use Diplomacy to gain the good will of an NPC such as an evil warlord might have to say things that they normally wouldn't say, especially if using the Sence Motive synergy modifier. This can lead to choices for the PC as the DM can tell them "You know his type well. He will be easy to manipulate. All you have to do is grovel at his feet and compliment him at the cost of your own self dignity." If the PC decides to use all his modifiers or even make the check is up to him.

 

[Corsair]

All of you who have Sharn: City of Towers, read the example NPCs. They all give examples of how the NPC will react depending on their attitude. I don't recall his name, but the "helpful" entry for the lich 'living' in the cemetary is something like "offers to turn the PC into an intelligent undead".

Remember, one person's idea of helpful is not always the same as someone else. If you use diplomacy on a prison guard and he becomes helpful, perhaps the most he does is gets you clean sheets and extra food.