Response from wotc: Kensi signature weapons break VoPoverty

[Zimri]

1. The tattooed monk and psionic tattoos both count as items that you must have for your class, so they're fine with the Vow of Poverty. Only in extremely rare cases (such as the Vassal of Bahamut, which gets magical platinum armor and the shared trove) does the Vow of Poverty prevent you from getting items needed for your character class.

2. The monk's entire body is considered to be one weapon for the purposes of imbuing it with the kensai's signature weapon. You would not need to imbue more than one part with an ability. The entire body would be enhanced.

3. Signature weapons would break the Vow of Poverty because they are an enchantment that is aplied to a manufactured weapon.

Thanks!

**Please quote this e-mail in any reply.**
******************************************************************
Darrin
Wizards of the Coast - Customer Service
Website: http://www.wizards.com
Game Support Phone: 1-800-324-6496
Monday through Friday, 9 AM - 7 PM PST
Corporate Phone: (425) 226-6500
******************************************************************






-----Original Message-----
From: zimri@nb.sympatico.ca [mailto:zimri@nb.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:08 AM
To: Wizards Customer Service
Subject: Game rules question - Dungeons & Dragons/Forgotten Realms
Feedback


Game rules question - Dungeons & Dragons/Forgotten Realms Feedback
From: Edward Woodman (zimri@nb.sympatico.ca)

Regarding Vow of poverty Book of exalted deads Tatood monk complete
warrior, Kenasi complete warrior and Monk Tatoo magic of faerun:
Firstly can a Tatood monk have a vow of poverty or do his tatoos count as
magical items ? What about other magical tatoos say for example a tatooist
wants to reward the monk with a magical tatoo with a permanent affect,
basically a no slot permanent magic item. What about one use psionic
tatoos would these fall under the same use as a potion of cure serious
wounds which is allowed ?

What about Kenasi signature weapons as a monk/Tatood monk ? How many
natural weapons does a monk have. The Phb says that a monks unarmed
attacks are treated as A natural weapon or A manufactured weapon which
would indicate the whole body is 1 weapon regardless of how many parts are
used The Kenasi PrC list the example of master Shen who and in the write
up of signature weapon itself used 100 10 per fist. These seem to
contradict each other. If I want to be able to use elbows knees, feat and
forehead as part of my unarmed attacks do I need to imbue all of those or
is there a flat cost for the whole body ?

Do Kenasi signature weapons in this case a monks unarmed attacks break the
vow of povery ?

If a VoP character can use drink a potion of cure wounds what other one
shot magic items can s/he use ?

 

[Coredump]

Isn't Darrin on these boards??

The answer about VoP/Kensai/monk hands just doesn't seem to make sense to me. It isn't a manufactured weapon, it is the monks unarmed body. The monk is using his own essence (XP) to improve his monk ability. (meta-wise, it is the same mechanic as leveling up).

hmmmm

 

[Zimri]

Yes the response confused me as well considering the following :
1) The example Kensai (In CW)was a monk that spent 120% to imbue both hands (although the write up for monks calls the unarmed strike A (singular) weapon)

2) You don't buy or pay for your hands so your material possesions aren't going up. I can understand not being able to purchase a masterwork weapon to imbue but your body is kind of part and parcel of you and allowed to be imbued according to the description. I could accept a ruling that it breaks the "spirit" of the vow if not it's actual wording.

3) apparently I can have a VoP and still get the party psionicist to give me tatoos that I can use whenever. This is good however I wasn't aware that I needed them as part of my class.

Somehow I think Darrin and I are not reading each other correctly.

 

[Lord_Fergus]

2. The monk's entire body is considered to be one weapon for the purposes of imbuing it with the kensai's signature weapon. You would not need to imbue more than one part with an ability. The entire body would be enhanced.

3. Signature weapons would break the Vow of Poverty because they are an enchantment that is aplied to a manufactured weapon.

Someone hasn't read the Kensai description clearly enough - Monk's are specifically mentioned and they use a 1.5 (if I remember correctly) cost modifier. Yes, signature weapons OTHER THAN MONK'S FISTS would be applying an enchantment to a manufactured weapon, and therefore not allowed by the rules of the VoP.

 

[Pax]

Lord Fergus: monks and anythign with natural weapons, pays +10% per natural weapon (monks are stated to count as having two natural weapons).

However, it's not JUST monk attacks that can be Kensai-improved without violating the VoPov. A half-dragon ascetic fighter, who uses his bite and two claws, could declare those three natural weapons to be his "signature weapon", and improve them - at 130% the cost listed in the CW table, of course. ^_^

 

[Zimri]

So then we are saying WOTC customer service is right out to lunch on this one then ? Sorry not used to that I come from a (non rpg) board where people wouldn't dare question anything from out the mouth of God (errrr mod) so I am not used to seeing people disagree with official statements. Kind of refreshing actually.

 

[James McMurray]

If you find that refreshing, wait until somebody posts an email from The Sage with even the slightest hint of an error in it.

 

[Zimri]

But but but. If it comes from the makers of the rules how can it be wrong 8). (no I am not really that niave but seriously doesn't the buck have to stop somewhere)

 

[Darrin Drader]

Isn't Darrin on these boards??

Indeed

The answer about VoP/Kensai/monk hands just doesn't seem to make sense to me. It isn't a manufactured weapon, it is the monks unarmed body. The monk is using his own essence (XP) to improve his monk ability. (meta-wise, it is the same mechanic as leveling up).

hmmmm

Sorry guys, but this one is strictly not allowed. Under the monk's unarmed strike ability, it states "A monk's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells). The Vow of Poverty states "You may not use any magic item of any sort..."

So, if the monk's unarmed attack is considered both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, and the kensai's signature weapon is a class ability, then a monk with the Vow of Poverty would be breaking his vow by imbuing his body as a kensai's signature weapon.

 

[Trainz]

Indeed


Sorry guys, but this one is strictly not allowed. Under the monk's unarmed strike ability, it states "A monk's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells). The Vow of Poverty states "You may not use any magic item of any sort..."

So, if the monk's unarmed attack is considered both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, and the kensai's signature weapon is a class ability, then a monk with the Vow of Poverty would be breaking his vow by imbuing his body as a kensai's signature weapon.

I don't agree with that: "A monk's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons ", NOT for the purpose of determining if the character actually owns an object (Vow Of Poverty).

Surely, you don't consider the monk's own fists as "property". Would you then allow a monk VoP who chops-off his hands to be a Kensai ?