Ogrork the Mighty
Explorer
Also remember that it's spells per day, not spells per 8 hours. Resting 2-3 times in a dungeon amounts to 2-3 days, not 24-32 hours.
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Resting in the dungeon
- Thread starter SuperFlyTNT
- Start date
Gynsala
First Post
I agree with the 'no resting in the dungeon' crew. If they MUST rest in a dungeon, it should be established that they will be attacked, and they must find a way to sleep 8 hours without major disturbances. New thought from the silence suggestion above... what if the person guarding realizes an encounter is approaching, casts silence on him/herself, and attempts to fend it off while leaving the party undisrtubed? MUCH more dangerous for that char, but it leaves the rest of the party to regain hit points and spells...
Mordane76
First Post
Resting in the dungeon doesn't bother me one bit - if they set a watch and make sure they've secured a perimeter for their 'camp.' I've never allowed my players not to rest, but they always knew I was checking for random encounters as soon as they decided to try it, at least once an hour. Risk and rewards - if they're lucky enough to make it 8 hours without something from the dungeon happening upon them, then good for them. If they knew things were particularly hairy, they'd retreat to outside of the dungeon to rest.
After rope trick, though, things like this became pretty moot.
After rope trick, though, things like this became pretty moot.
IF they want to play it really safe by resting two to three times in the dungeon then the solution is simple. Make it so it's not safe to rest in the dungeon, even moreso then continuing. If the dungeon has any sort of intelligent inhabitants, they're likely to organize a counter-strike against the party. Start with a scout, or scouting party, doing a hit and run in the night. This should give the PC's a clue as to the danger, especially if the enemy runs for reinforcements. If they still don't move, use a full blown raiding party to attack their campsite. If they do move, have them hear loud noises in the area they were previously in, or catch a glimpse of the raiding party in the area. If they kill said raiding party and STILL camp there, make a full attack that is borderline TPK, if not a TPK.
Another very good option is to put a time limit on your dungeons. Perhaps they need to be back in town within the next few days. Maybe they need to find something in the dungeon before someone else, or maybe they're needed somewhere else. I did this to my Epic level group, they had two places they needed to be at almost the same time. They could have taken it easy and done one objective, then rested, but many people would have suffered in that case. So instead they did both, and by the end had no spells left, very little life, and few resources. It was one of the best sessions in the last few months. Your players might find the challenge and danger enjoyable.
However, I don't recommend doing this all the time. If they players want to play it safe every so often, I would let them. Also, if they instead get smart and decide to rest in well hidden areas (such as the secret room they found earlier, or in the spring loaded pit trap), I would advise to let them get away with it.
Another very good option is to put a time limit on your dungeons. Perhaps they need to be back in town within the next few days. Maybe they need to find something in the dungeon before someone else, or maybe they're needed somewhere else. I did this to my Epic level group, they had two places they needed to be at almost the same time. They could have taken it easy and done one objective, then rested, but many people would have suffered in that case. So instead they did both, and by the end had no spells left, very little life, and few resources. It was one of the best sessions in the last few months. Your players might find the challenge and danger enjoyable.
However, I don't recommend doing this all the time. If they players want to play it safe every so often, I would let them. Also, if they instead get smart and decide to rest in well hidden areas (such as the secret room they found earlier, or in the spring loaded pit trap), I would advise to let them get away with it.
Some good ideas posted above. My two cents' worth: the problem isn't that the players are resting a lot - it's that they're able to do so without consequences.
I always encourage the players to use good tactics, which includes knowing when to back off and rest. If the problem is that they are blowing through all their resources in a couple encounters, then resting at will - well, that's a sign that the opposition isn't using good tactics. Tabletop rpg's differ from computer rpg's in large part because a GM can always run the villains more intelligently than a computer can.
One idea: try having an npc group ambush the party at various times (not just at night). The npc's attack by surprise, fling a couple good spells, then retreat. The npc's then rest and come back later full up. See what the party does in response - maybe they'll track down the npc's, or capture one of them, or some other tactic. Whatever they do, remember the tactic and have your npc's begin using it when the PC's pull their standard encounter-encounter-rest strategy.
One caveat: make sure the players understand that you, as GM, will never try to kill their characters - but the npc's will. This isn't about GM vs. players. It's about running the npc's properly (which means some will be idiots, some will be brilliant) and forcing the players to challenge themselves to succeed.
I always encourage the players to use good tactics, which includes knowing when to back off and rest. If the problem is that they are blowing through all their resources in a couple encounters, then resting at will - well, that's a sign that the opposition isn't using good tactics. Tabletop rpg's differ from computer rpg's in large part because a GM can always run the villains more intelligently than a computer can.
One idea: try having an npc group ambush the party at various times (not just at night). The npc's attack by surprise, fling a couple good spells, then retreat. The npc's then rest and come back later full up. See what the party does in response - maybe they'll track down the npc's, or capture one of them, or some other tactic. Whatever they do, remember the tactic and have your npc's begin using it when the PC's pull their standard encounter-encounter-rest strategy.
One caveat: make sure the players understand that you, as GM, will never try to kill their characters - but the npc's will. This isn't about GM vs. players. It's about running the npc's properly (which means some will be idiots, some will be brilliant) and forcing the players to challenge themselves to succeed.
painandgreed
First Post
Totally depends on the dungeon itself. If it's a tomb or such with no wandering mosnters and nothing living, then there's not that much of a problem. Nothing has cleaned out the dungeon in the many years it's been there, then nothing is going to bother the party. If it's a dungeon occupied by living creatures that are going about their business like orc caves or a slaver's lair, then those monsters are probably going to find the places the adventures have cleared, raise the alarm and venture forth in an organized way to deal with the threat. Adventurers typically get one chance of surprise and when they call off the intial assault, it gives the dungeon time to react and prepare. They may gather or replace their forces and maybe even counter attack. ADventurers have to be careful of even camping too close to the dungeon if the monsters still have the ability and desire to track the intruders down and get revenge. I've also had them decide that the attacking adventurers were just too much and after a couple of assaults, they simply vacated the dungeon. When the adventurers returned everything was empty and gone and two days travel into the woods moving away from them as quickly as possible.
randomling
First Post
Hiya Superfly -
Have you talked to your players about this? It might be a good idea to bring it out in the open with the group and ask them why they're behaving like this. If you think it's overly paranoid, maybe they're used to far more dangerous games than you run - and losing your character is no fun, so in a "killer game" sometimes the best tactic is to use every opportunity you have to recuperate and get your resources back. (Their behaving like this might not be a comment on you, but on past DMs that they've had.)
Personally, I think that if your group is relying on being able to rest too often, maybe the best tactic is not to make it impossible for them to rest and therefore possibly damaging their trust in you as a DM. Maybe create incentives for them to carry on a little longer, and show them that they can trust you not to kill their characters if they adventure for the entire day of game-time.
You might also need to take into account things like resource management. What levels are the PCs? How many encounters are you expecting them to withstand in an entire day? How does that compare with the amount of encounters they think they can withstand before resting?
Hope some of that helps.
Have you talked to your players about this? It might be a good idea to bring it out in the open with the group and ask them why they're behaving like this. If you think it's overly paranoid, maybe they're used to far more dangerous games than you run - and losing your character is no fun, so in a "killer game" sometimes the best tactic is to use every opportunity you have to recuperate and get your resources back. (Their behaving like this might not be a comment on you, but on past DMs that they've had.)
Personally, I think that if your group is relying on being able to rest too often, maybe the best tactic is not to make it impossible for them to rest and therefore possibly damaging their trust in you as a DM. Maybe create incentives for them to carry on a little longer, and show them that they can trust you not to kill their characters if they adventure for the entire day of game-time.
You might also need to take into account things like resource management. What levels are the PCs? How many encounters are you expecting them to withstand in an entire day? How does that compare with the amount of encounters they think they can withstand before resting?
Hope some of that helps.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
SuperFlyTNT said:
Let me see. I am an adventurer. If I mess up, I will DIE.
Now - is it really silly for the party to rest when they're low on resources? Really?
Greylock
First Post
Saeviomagy said:
Well, SuperFlyTNT did establish that his players are not playing smart. They need to learn to control their resources, and by burning everthing and resting, they are not learning anything. I'm suprised no one has mentioned it yet, but it sounds like his players got their start in CRPGs.
