D&D (2024) Rests should be dropped. Stop conflating survival mechanics with resource recovery.

[Bagpuss]

You didn't answer the question. Did you read past what you quoted or did you not understand what you read?

I read it but the stuff about the high level game where resource recovery isn't as big an issue isn't really relevant the what we are discussing (a potion based mechanic to replace the rest based mechanic for resource recovery).

I shudder at the state of your table if players need permission to play the game. This reeks of a horrendous GMing attitude.

You can't gather a resource if it doesn't exist, or there isn't a place to gather it form the DM has as much control over that as they do over when you rest, so I don't see how your mechanic removes that issue you have with of the DM controlling resource recovery.

Because its contrived, unrealistic, and isn't fun for anyone, including the DM.

What's unrealistic about a night's rest or taking some time to tend wounds and get your breath back?

You should read more RPGs. And you're overstating what a game economy has to be anyway. This is less Gazillionaire trader sim and more just good synergy between costs and item rarity.

I've read plenty, so please point me to one with a function economy, I've got about 100 on my shelves without.

 

[eyeheartawk]

 

[Yora]

I think this thread is actually a great idea.

Resting to regain health and spells was created as part of a complex system that included time pressure and exploration rules. With all of that long gone from new D&D editions, keeping resting around makes as little sense as wandering monsters or encumbrance.
Nobody used the recommended combat encounters per day anyway in the contemporary adventure style.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think this thread is actually a great idea.

Resting to regain health and spells was created as part of a complex system that included time pressure and exploration rules. With all of that long gone from new D&D editions, keeping resting around makes as little sense as wandering monsters or encumbrance.
Nobody used the recommended combat encounters per day anyway in the contemporary adventure style.

"But it won't feel like D&D."

 

[Emberashh]

but the stuff about the high level game where resource recovery isn't as big an issue isn't really relevant the what we are discussing

Yes it is.

You can't gather a resource if it doesn't exist

Was I being subtle about this not being in the hands of the GM when I talked about having a robust crafting and gathering system?

What's unrealistic about a night's rest or taking some time to tend wounds and get your breath back?

That isn't what was said and you should know that given this isn't the first time Ive explained (to you if I recall) that.

so please point me to one with a function economy,

Traveller.
GURPS
Harn Manor
ACKS
Pathfinder 2e.

These are off the top of the noggin, and all approach a functional economy at different levels of depth. You don't have to go as deep as ACKS does but you want the function that PF2E has at minimum.

"But it won't feel like D&D."

They should play DCC if they want a game that feels like DND.

 

[TheSword]

5e does everything it can to make sure that waiting an extra 24hours does not matter though. does anyone like d&d gameplay based on

Spoiler: this?

Even beyond that, has wotc published any HC adventures with that level of time pressure?

Theres time pressure and Time Pressure.

I don’t need a 7 days doom clock to make me not take unnecessary rests. This isn’t Baldur’s Gate where you can click a button and rest. Resting in a dungeon risks being attacked by dungeon denizens or wandering monsters. Leaving the dungeon to rest is a massive pain in the arse. That should carry its own penalties and disadvantages.

To be honest as a DM I prefer the 5 room dungeon model that is designed not to be rested in. I think you know my thoughts that it’s good to have resources that can’t be recovered after a rest, like ability damage and lingering injuries.

I do think removing getting hp back on a long rest and then making healing magic really costly would be great. Spend HD to get back hp and get half HD on a rest As per the gritty healing rule. Then there’s less incentive to rest.

 

[tetrasodium]

Theres time pressure and Time Pressure.

I don’t need a 7 days doom clock to make me not take unnecessary rests. This isn’t Baldur’s Gate where you can click a button and rest. Resting in a dungeon risks being attacked by dungeon denizens or wandering monsters. Leaving the dungeon to rest is a massive pain in the arse. That should carry its own penalties and disadvantages.

To be honest as a DM I prefer the 5 room dungeon model that is designed not to be rested in. I think you know my thoughts that it’s good to have resources that can’t be recovered after a rest, like ability damage and lingering injuries.

I do think removing getting hp back on a long rest and then making healing magic really costly would be great. Spend HD to get back hp and get half HD on a rest As per the gritty healing rule. Then there’s less incentive to rest.

Does resting ina dungeon really risk anything?

The gains are too huge & any actual risk almost entirely relies on the GM invoking GM fiat or rocks fall type scenarios. I wish to hell those two videos were not rooted in mechanics that ensure they are totally plausible until the GM starts making the world act implausibly.

 

[Reef]

Ok. Yes. The DM is a jerk if they constantly use their (limitless) power to screw over the players. We agree on that. However, if the player’s abuse the knowledge that the DM isn’t going to TPK them every time they rest, it sucks the life (and the shared fantasy) out of the story.

It’s back to the social contract. The DM agrees to not screw with the players needlessly, and the players agree to not take advantage of the DM’s desire not to end the game by demanding rests (etc).

So, if we ask our DM if we think it’s safe to take a rest, and they say “yes” or “probably”, we trust they aren’t going to spring a totally hidden dragon on us. But if they say “no, there’s too many patrols around”, we take them at their word and not say “Oh yeah? Prove it!”

 

[CreamCloud0]

Was I being subtle about this not being in the hands of the GM when I talked about having a robust crafting and gathering system?

yeah, and who is ultimately in control of when and where those crafting/gathering resources are available to collect? oh look at that it's the DM again, you're just bumping the issue up the ladder but it's ultimately the same fundamental problem in a different hat.

 

[Emberashh]

yeah, and who is ultimately in control of when and where those crafting/gathering resources are available to collect?

The dice.

Again, if you're not understanding what Im getting at, then ask questions, don't just assume the worst.

Gathering, ideally, would be hooked into travel activities and the chances of getting things (particularly specific things) would be some formula that integrates the players skill in whatever gathering type, the set difficulties of the area being travelled, and the rarity of whats being sought-after.

There is no DM hording the privilege of gathering over the players. They can do it if they're travelling, period. The DM has no say, because its not up to the DM what parts of the game the players can and can't choose to play in the middle of the game.

If the DM is that much of a garbage control freak then thats a Session Zero concern to say that gathering and crafting can only be done with sufficient ass kissing, and the players will filter out as appropriate.