Resurrection Survival Returns!

[The Madhatter]

With money and enough goodwill it seems that 3.0/3.5 parties are effectively immortal! IMC we see death as a mere inconvenience rather than a show stopper. We've been that way since 11th level (we are 21st now)! I know a character can choose not to come back, but with the no drawbacks with true res. why would you. You don't even forget spells! I proposed we bring back Res. Survival rolls from 2e. I think it would add a distinct excitement and dread to dying. Does anyone have an alternate house rule they use, or is this a good idea?

 

[dcollins]

In my campaign, I used the converted flesh to stone spell (also had a % chance to survive in earlier additions, based on Con) as a guide (now has a Fort save DC 15 to survive).

I set resurrection survival as a Fort save, DC 10, which no magic can modify. You could argue also that DC 15 is more in line with the flesh to stone guideline. (I actually computed based on NPC stats that DC 12 would most resemble 1st Ed., but took it to the nearest round number.)

 

[The Madhatter]

In my campaign, I used the converted flesh to stone spell (also had a % chance to survive in earlier additions, based on Con) as a guide (now has a Fort save DC 15 to survive).

I set resurrection survival as a Fort save, DC 10, which no magic can modify. You could argue also that DC 15 is more in line with the flesh to stone guideline. (I actually computed based on NPC stats that DC 12 would most resemble 1st Ed., but took it to the nearest round number.)

I was thinking that the old school percentiles would work nicely! As much as I love the new save system there's nothing like feeling the dread of seeing double zeroes!

 

[Yair]

I once thought as you do, but then I reconsidered.
I don't know about your campaign, but are 21st level characters so easily replaced? Can another character just "join the group"? And what of all the time and energy put into creating that character?
There are still things to fear, if the DM wants you to fear things - things like soul-eating demons, spells that Instantly change your allegiance or infernal temptation (which, as it is essentially non-magical, cannot be reversed by magic), and numerous other threats. Not to mention dangers to loved ones, nations, worlds, existence, or whatever.
I find having to recreate the party after every near-TPK disrupting to the story flow and not necessary.

YMOV, Yair

 

[The Madhatter]

I hear ya. We play in the FR so there is no shortage of epic npcs. With True Res working without fail there is no epic deaths. What 17th level good cleric wouldn't res the great elf warrior so and so? I know it keeps the DM continuity going and he appreciates that, but each member of our 21st level party has multiple escape plans. I must admit that I'm a prisoner of my own design. I have a 21st level cleric/runecaster and I keep a rune of True Res available. It's a standard action to True Res someone, so we've had PCs that stayed dead for less than a round.

 

[Yair]

I hear ya. We play in the FR so there is no shortage of epic npcs. With True Res working without fail there is no epic deaths. What 17th level good cleric wouldn't res the great elf warrior so and so? I know it keeps the DM continuity going and he appreciates that, but each member of our 21st level party has multiple escape plans. I must admit that I'm a prisoner of my own design. I have a 21st level cleric/runecaster and I keep a rune of True Res available. It's a standard action to True Res someone, so we've had PCs that stayed dead for less than a round.

That's ... useful.
The thing is, dying at such high levels is just like losing hp, really. It is a replendishable resource.
I think the problem isn't with the rules on dying, it is with you wanting the fear of permanent death. I understand you are the player - talk to the DM. Tell him you want it. He can arrange for it easily enough - there are all kinds of soul-snaring/destroying items/monsters just for this use, and I am sure he can cook up some more ways. Not every battle will involve the fear of death - but really, when thrushing the mooks death isn't often a concern anyways - but climatic battles can still contain that element if the DM wants them to.
Just be prepared for what happens when the soul of your *friend's* character is sucked to oblivion because of *your* requests...

 

[Grazzt]

In my campaign, I used the converted flesh to stone spell (also had a % chance to survive in earlier additions, based on Con) as a guide (now has a Fort save DC 15 to survive).

I set resurrection survival as a Fort save, DC 10, which no magic can modify. You could argue also that DC 15 is more in line with the flesh to stone guideline. (I actually computed based on NPC stats that DC 12 would most resemble 1st Ed., but took it to the nearest round number.)

That's how I do it my campaign too. Been using it since 3e rolled out actually, as it gives it a bit of a "1e feel" and also doesnt let the players get into the "Oh, if I do, no big deal...Bob the Cleric can zap me and I'll be good to go." Like you, when I first set it up, we used Fort DC 12, but ended up setting it at DC 10 not long after that. (No reason, other than DC 10 is nice and clean and stuff )

EDIT: Oh, and as an aside, we still use System Shock too (for stuff like flesh to stone, polymorph, etc.) Works well.

 

[dcollins]

That's how I do it my campaign too. Been using it since 3e rolled out actually, as it gives it a bit of a "1e feel" and also doesnt let the players get into the "Oh, if I do, no big deal...Bob the Cleric can zap me and I'll be good to go." Like you, when I first set it up, we used Fort DC 12, but ended up setting it at DC 10 not long after that. (No reason, other than DC 10 is nice and clean and stuff )

EDIT: Oh, and as an aside, we still use System Shock too (for stuff like flesh to stone, polymorph, etc.) Works well.

Cool, interesting to hear you took the exact same path. My campaign also uses "system shock" for all those things, I set all that stuff at an even Fort DC 10 save.

For the original posters benefit, at one point I also considered having resurrection be a straight Constitution check, DC 6. This almost precisely matches the probabilities from 1st Ed., but folds it into the 3E mechanics. (Still listed on my website, here: http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/dndmisc/house_rules_1st_ed_flavor.html )

 

[The Madhatter]

I'm digging the fort save idea. At higher levels it'll just be a failure on a one, unless the poor rogue buys it again! It will definitely make lower level characters fear the reaper. I suppose you could convert it to percentiles easily enough. Thanks again for your responses.

 

[WizDrag]

With money and enough goodwill it seems that 3.0/3.5 parties are effectively immortal! IMC we see death as a mere inconvenience rather than a show stopper. We've been that way since 11th level (we are 21st now)! I know a character can choose not to come back, but with the no drawbacks with true res. why would you. You don't even forget spells! I proposed we bring back Res. Survival rolls from 2e. I think it would add a distinct excitement and dread to dying. Does anyone have an alternate house rule they use, or is this a good idea?

Con. System Shock Hit Points recovery
1 5 % - 5
2 10 % - 4
3 15 % - 3
4-5 20 % - 2
6-7 25 % - 1
8-9 30 % 0
10-11 35 % + 1
12-13 40 % + 2
14-15 45 % + 3
16-17 50 % + 4
18-19 55 % + 5
20-21 60 % + 6
22-23 65 % + 7
24-25 70 % + 8
26-27 80 % + 9
28-29 85 % + 10
30-31 90 % + 11
32-33 95 % + 12
34-35 100 % + 13
36-37 100 % + 14
38-39 100 % + 15

System Shock: A system shock roll is made when you take more than half you hit points in damage in a single round, or 50 or more damage in a single round. Crushing blows also require a system shock roll, as does being raised from the dead.
Failure could be as little as passing out to outright death, or permanent death. The severity of the failed roll depends on the situation, and how much damage you took according to your total hit points. If it does more than ¾ or your hit points in one attack and you fail your system shock roll its instant death.
Hit Point Recovery: If you get injured, depending on your constitution, you may gain hit points back from natural healing, and rest. By bandaging a wound you may gain 1d3 points back at once. However in order to heal your wounds completely you will need rest and or other healing.
For light wounds you may recover your constitution adjustments, worth of hit points, back for 8 hours of sleep each day. If you have complete bed rest you will gain double your constitution adjustment back each day.
For serious wounds you can gain no more than half the lost hit points back until you have complete bed rest. If you have complete bed rest you may gain the full constitution adjustments back for serious wounds, but if you have broken bones or need stitches, the bones will have to be set, and the wounds stitched shut, for you to gain the full adjustment of your constitution. (Remember bones hill slower than wounds.) If you have a person that is trained in the art of healing, you may get by without the aid of a cleric or priest, but that person must be trained in the arts of natural healing. Bones healed this way will take much longer to heal than that of magic aided by clerics or priests.
Critical wounds are more dangerous than the others described above. They will need the aid of a cleric or priest, or the person is going to die. Natural healing, cannot heal critical wounds, you can merely bandage the wound to stop the bleeding, dirt and infection from setting in the wound. You have that person’s constitution in days to get him/her to a cleric or priest before they die. If bandaging is not done after the critical wound has been made, the person will bleed to death in a short time, either internally or outwardly. If infection sets up in an open wound, the persons time to get to a cleric or priest is halved. The cleric or priest who heals the person has to have the spell Cure Critical Wounds in order to heal the person. If a less experienced cleric is all that can be found, you may be able to delay death a little longer than normal. The victim will add 2 days for every level the cleric has, to the days they have to reach someone who can cast Cure Critical Wounds on them. It’s not much but it may just save their life.



This is what we use, take it or leave it!

Hope it help.

PS; the best resorce a person has is their brain!