Retooling Epic Item Costs

[Cheiromancer]

I'd be hesitant to raise the caster level too high on the basis of the feats required; the prerequisites for item creation don't all have to be met by the same person. It could be that a cohort or another character would have the Craft Epic Staff feat, and perhaps the IMC and EMC feats, too. Or maybe the character has crafted an item (a ring, say) that grants that feat. That notion (items that grant epic feats) seems very ripe for abuse; perhaps we shouldn't assume it so readily. But a collaborating spellcaster - that should be straightforward to arrange.

Have you given thought to adjusting the rules regarding the time to craft epic items? I don't believe the default rule of 1 day/1000 gp has been changed, but I'd suggest something along the lines of 1 day/50,000 gp. I also think the xp cost is too high. Instead of 10,000 xp + 1xp/100 gp, I think it should be 6000 xp + 1xp/100 gp. This makes the new formula and the old formula coincide for a 200,000 gp item (both ways it would cost 8000 xp). Gold might be more plentiful for high level characters, but xp is just as precious- I don't think there needs to be an epic speed bump there as well. Special feats and extra gp costs is, imho, enough.

Actually, I think you should be able to make epic items with non-epic feats; just have them take 1 day/1000 gp and have an xp cost of 1/25 the market price. Epic feats would have an obvious utility if they allowed items to be crafted faster and more cheaply. And obviously you should be able to use an epic item crafting feat to craft non-epic items. You'd pay more xp, but it would be much faster.

Oh, and I concur with your emendation of Master Staff- it shouldn't be a way to evade xp costs.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Fair comment regarding CL - although I think it's also a valid control if we feel we need to bump the price a little. I'm also concerned that 510K is too cheap for this staff; as a discovered treaure (or an item given to a 28th-level custom-built character - much more likely), it seems too little. We could always slap a 200K surcharge on it...

This one has always interested me. I'm assuming CL 20 for all charged functions, and minimum CL for uncharged functions - which I'm assuming are use-activated rather than command word functions. I've costed its special absorption feature at 250K - really, it's anybody's guess. A nonepic rod of absorption is 1000gp/spell level; an epic rod of absorption is 10,000gp/spell level, and can absorb spells metamagicked above 9th level - which would suggest that the nonepic version cannot. I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that the staff of the magi cannot.

I've costed the retributive strike as a single-use, maximized, 4 x empowered 9th-level spell effect (10000gp) - which seems about right.

Staff of the Magi
A long wooden staff, shod in iron and inscribed with sigils and runes of all types, this potent artifact contains many spell powers and other functions. Some of its powers use charges, while others don’t. The following powers do not use charges:

Detect magic 1000
Enlarge person 2000
Hold portal 2000
Light 1000
Mage armor 2000
Mage hand 1000

The following powers drain 1 charge per usage:

Dispel magic 45,000
Fireball (10d6 damage) 45,000
Ice storm 60,000
Invisibility 30,000
Knock 30,000
Lightning bolt (10d6 damage) 45,000
Passwall 75,000
Pyrotechnics 30,000
Wall of fire 60,000
Web 30,000

These powers drain 2 charges per usage:

Summon monster IX 67,500
Plane shift 52,500
Telekinesis (400 lb. maximum weight) 37,500

A staff of the magi gives the wielder spell resistance 23 (110,000). If this is willingly lowered, however, the staff can also be used to absorb arcane spell energy directed at its wielder, as a rod of absorption does. Unlike the rod, this staff converts spell levels into charges rather than retaining them as spell energy usable by a spellcaster (250,000?). If the staff absorbs enough spell levels to exceed its limit of 50 charges, it explodes as if a retributive strike had been performed (see below). The wielder has no idea how many spell levels are cast at her, for the staff does not communicate this knowledge as a rod of absorption does. (Thus, absorbing spells can be risky.)

Retributive Strike (10,000?)
A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. All charges in the staff are released in a 30-foot spread. All within 10 feet of the broken staff take hit points of damage equal to 8 times the number of charges in the staff, those between 11 feet and 20 feet away take points equal to 6 times the number of charges, and those 21 feet to 30 feet distant take 4 times the number of charges. A DC 17 Reflex save reduces damage by half.

The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01-50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51-100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her. Only specific items, including the staff of the magi and the staff of power are capable of a retributive strike.

Strong (all schools); CL 20th; Weight 5 lb.


Anyway, given my whacky analysis (I invite anyone to give a better one), it works out at 703,250 gp, assuming that absorption is the primary, SR is the secondary, and everything else is a tertiary function. SR is costed fully, as it is a "different" function, which works while the staff is otherwise being used.

700K doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I wonder how a rod of absorption was costed. A staff of spell turning would be 7th level x 15 caster level x 375 = 39,375 gp. Maybe the ability to store spell energy is worth a 25% premium over having it reflect a spell back on your opponent?

How much would a rod of spell energy cost, one that worked like a rod of absorption that had absorbed 50 charges? Presumably a fair bit less than a rod of absorption. Or what if it only absorbed charges, but this didn't charge up the rod so you could cast your own spells (a rod of ablation)? If these two functions were equally valuable, then they should be worth 20,000 gp each; when combined one is the base price, and the other receives a 50% premium. Each is a "different" function, since the rod can absorb spells while the user is using charges.

Now suppose these derivative rods were rechargeable; you could cast mage's lucubration into a rod of spell energy, say, or antimagic field into a rod of ablation in order to restore charges. Would you double the cost? I think that would be a fair way of pricing a rechargeable item. Of course you don't have to posit these other items in order to decide that a rechargeable rod of absorption (that you cast spell turning into) would cost 100,000 gp.

A staff of the magi works more or less like a rechargeable rod of absorption. Except that it converts the potential to charges that power the staff, instead of making it available for the caster to use for his own spells. Kind of a backwards form of Staff Mastery, there. I can't think of why the staff of the magi doesn't communicate information on how many spell levels are cast at the wielder. The element of risk it introduces should provide a fair discount.

I guess I'm chewing over the 250,000 gp. I don't see it as providing a huge premium over a rod of absorption; if there is a modest premium it would be made up by the "risky absorption" feature. So I'd think more like 100,000 gp than 250,000 gp.

But that's based on the notion that converting a charged item to a rechargeable item would result in a doubling of cost. That's the same factor as making something a use-activated item. But when a use-activated item is inappropriate (use activated items of CLW or true strike or whatever), a rechargeable item probably would be OK.

This will sound funny, but I need to ask it: "Is staff of the magi a staff? If so, then the following applies:

Staffs use the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it’s higher than the caster level of the staff.

Retributive strike

The save DC indicates that it is a 3rd level spell (all the other DCs are 14 + spell level). Though it's a pretty dumb 3rd level spell that does a maximum of 8 points of damage (save for half). Maybe it is a maximized, not-an-action casting time spell that does d8 in a 10-ft. radius, d6 out to 20-ft., and d4 out to 30-ft.. The not-an-action casting time would explain why all the charges could go off at once. Still a pretty dumb spell, though. And I don't know why a 1-charge retributive strike would have a 50% chance of destroying the wielder, either. Double damage I could see.

Re: 510K for a staff of necromancy
Funny how 510,000 gp comes to be described as "cheap," isn't it? I'd think that 31st level should be the minimum CL for an item that casts 16th level spells. (2 x Spell level) -1. 32 is fine, though. I don't really see any logical reason it would be higher; the way CL works for staves, it would be silly to make it any higher.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Rod of the Epic Spellcaster
This magnificent adamantine rod bestows upon its possesser the equivalent of 10 additional ranks in Spellcraft for the purpose of casting epic spells, for as long as he or she holds or carries the rod.

Caster Level: 21st; Prerequisites: Craft Rod, Craft Epic Rod; Market Price: ?

Should this item even exist? How would you cost it? Should it be a minor artifact?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I'd rather it didn't exist. I'm hoping that our system is tight and powerful enough that we don't need such items. It also defeats one of the main purposes of having a spellcraft prerequisite system; to make it impossible to buff.

The only reason I might list such an item is because people will expect to see something like it. I would rather it be priced pretty severely, so that folks will normally choose something else. Perhaps 5 times as much as a weapon bonus. I.e.

1,000,000 + bonus cubed times 2000​

More than that and people will house rule it down. Less than that and it would be a significant item; perhaps a must have item. A +10 item for 3 million might in fact be a must-have item for a 50th level character. It is the equivalent of a 100,000 gp power component for every spell (400,000 if not a preferred mitigation) and could pay for itself within days.

A +5 item would be 1,250,000 for a 37th level character. I think that would be OK.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Oh, and I was thinking that we might try to assign market values to some of the minor artifacts. If there is a market price for +20 swords, why not a deck of many things?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I hear you re: the no-buff philosophy; I'm also aware that there is a kind of expectation regarding it.

The interface between our system and magic items is going to be difficult to negotiate - the epic 'brew spell' feat is another example. Should we remain distant from conventional expectations in this regard (preserving balance), or exploit the range of possibilities offered (compromising it)?

 

[Cheiromancer]

The epic "brew spell" feat is starting to grow on me, to tell you the truth. And I'm already warming to the idea of the epic spellcaster rod, provided it is priced pretty severely.

After all, at epic levels *everything* is possible. The main question is when a particular kind of impossibility will become possible. It might be strictly impossible at level 21, prohibitively difficult at level 30, sub-optimal at level 40, a reasonable tactic at level 50, and routine at level 60 or above. (Adjust these level limits to taste.)

I think people would be prepared to have their expectations challenged a little. They might be disappointed to find that the rod is 3 million instead of 245K, but hopefully they will recognize that in our system such an item would be worth the wait.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

How would you figure the cost of an artifact? If we priced the Sword of Kas as a regular epic item it would look like this:

+14 total enhancement bonus: 1,097,600 (assumes bonus^3 x400)
Slotless +10 Str bonus: 400,000 (assumes bonus^3 x 200)
Intelligence: 9000 (approximate)
Special Powers (CL20): blasphemy 56,000; unholy aura 64,000; call lightning 48,000; unhallow 10,000 (1've assumed 1/week is half the cost of 1/day).
Epic Surcharge: 200,000

Total = 1,884,600. An epic weapon which replicated the Sword of Kas in every regard except its artifactyness.

How much is the artifact status worth? x2? Is the Sword of Kas worth about 3.7 million? Charlie would have it by 53rd level. Is that too late?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Actually, I'd price artifacts according to the ELH formula of 10 x the non-epic cost. Doing this makes things segue nicely into UK's immortals handbook rules.

So 3,920,000 just for the enhancement bonuses, and another 1,000,000 for the strength bonus. Intelligence and special powers are trifles compared to those.

Hmmm. That makes it awfully expensive. 5,107,000. On the other hand, 60th level is about the time when the standard gear of a character should consist of several artifacts.

The high price underscores the fact, I think, that artifacts should not be treated as regular treasure at lower levels.