Cheiromancer
Adventurer
I'm getting this weird picture of epic campaigning; "You throw open the door, and see an unfurnished 10 x 10 room. In the center of the room is a robed figure. As soon as he sees you he begins to make mystic passes... Roll Initiative!"
If every encounter were like that, then yeah, SR would be incredibly valuable. But I really doubt that's how things work. Characters will be facing opponents that don't use spells- even when it comes down to face to face combat between small groups the attacks will often be supernatural, extraordinary, or melee. When the opponents use spells, they may be buffs, dispels, walls, attacks that bypass SR, or summonings. Or they might have a +12 item of Spell Penetration, and a few feats and class abilities, and of course an assay resistance or six.
Suppose that the party knew that the enemy cabal opposing them could not be directly affected by spells that allowed SR. And suppose that they knew that this cabal could not directly affect them either, at least with spells that allow SR. Does this mean the campaign is over and everyone goes home? On the contrary, I think this makes things interesting. And it provides an explanation why the game universe has all these powerful factions haven't killed each other long since.
Besides, as SR goes up in effectiveness it also loses value- enemy spellcasters will find other ways of doing their dirty work. And when they do so, SR becomes less of a must-have. Characters will wonder why they need to spend a quarter of their wealth on something that hardly ever benefits them, and so they'll cut back a little. But if they cut back too much, they'll be vulnerable to those wizards who occasional try to use spells that allow Spell Resistance. There must be some; just like there are necromancers who don't realize everyone always has death ward up, or those enchanters or diviners that are in denial about mind blank; evocation specialists who have never heard of energy immunity, illusionists who imagine that some people don't have true seeing, and so on. I don't know why SR items are such a problem, given the number of other defensive measures out there, measures that work against Supernatural and Extraordinary threats, too.
And it is not like spellcasters would be unfairly treated if sometimes their spells couldn't affect a particular opponent; how often do rogues find that they can't use sneak attack? What's a fighter supposed to do when confronted by a swarm, or with an obstacle that absolutely requires magic to overcome? Why would it be so bad if the wizard were relegated to a supporting role once in a while?
Although the SR is not truly insurmountable; it is about level +20 in my proposal. Level +10 if purchased as a secondary item. If Jake wants to affect his opponents, he need only add in the appropriate factors. Given the way we are using specialized feats, he probably only needs one feat to get a +30 spell penetration boost for his favorite seed.
However he comes by them spending Spellcraft Prerequisite to boost spell penetration will mean he'll have less factors to boost the save DC- I think that would be a good thing, given what the save DCs can get to. And as for Matt, we can modify Heighten so that +1 level can be used to give +2 to Spell Penetration rather than +1 DC. No problem- in fact, every time Matt does that, it means that the save DC will be easier to make. This could be part of the solution to the problem of high Spell DCs.
Spellcasters will have to guess whether to boost Save DCs or Spell Penetration; they will need tactics. Characters will have to know to deploy their defenses; boost saves, boost SR, get immunity to particular attack forms? Or use the best defense of all; a good offense.
I guess I just don't buy it that character SR has to be capped at their level +10 (or +12 or whatever). I don't think it would be that bad to allow level + 20 at 30th level (assuming a best item). Gradually increasing to level +30 at 60th level (or whatever it is).
If anything, this might be too moderate. A low level party deserves a degree of protection against a high level caster, and level +20 might not cut it.
[edit]
Now I'm getting second thoughts. You have good intuitions about such things; maybe I should trust you.
But I'm thinking that this would basically open yet another front on the arms race; besides having Int-buff items to boost their save DCs, wizards would invest in items of Spell Penetration. In addition to boosting their saving throws, AC and hit points, characters would also boost their SR. I can't help but think this will enrich the game. Characters won't put all their eggs in one basket; they'd have to be flexible and versatile.
But maybe it would stagnate the game. Kinda like if people could get their AC so high that no-one could hit them except on a 20. I'm not sure. Are you?
If every encounter were like that, then yeah, SR would be incredibly valuable. But I really doubt that's how things work. Characters will be facing opponents that don't use spells- even when it comes down to face to face combat between small groups the attacks will often be supernatural, extraordinary, or melee. When the opponents use spells, they may be buffs, dispels, walls, attacks that bypass SR, or summonings. Or they might have a +12 item of Spell Penetration, and a few feats and class abilities, and of course an assay resistance or six.
Suppose that the party knew that the enemy cabal opposing them could not be directly affected by spells that allowed SR. And suppose that they knew that this cabal could not directly affect them either, at least with spells that allow SR. Does this mean the campaign is over and everyone goes home? On the contrary, I think this makes things interesting. And it provides an explanation why the game universe has all these powerful factions haven't killed each other long since.
Besides, as SR goes up in effectiveness it also loses value- enemy spellcasters will find other ways of doing their dirty work. And when they do so, SR becomes less of a must-have. Characters will wonder why they need to spend a quarter of their wealth on something that hardly ever benefits them, and so they'll cut back a little. But if they cut back too much, they'll be vulnerable to those wizards who occasional try to use spells that allow Spell Resistance. There must be some; just like there are necromancers who don't realize everyone always has death ward up, or those enchanters or diviners that are in denial about mind blank; evocation specialists who have never heard of energy immunity, illusionists who imagine that some people don't have true seeing, and so on. I don't know why SR items are such a problem, given the number of other defensive measures out there, measures that work against Supernatural and Extraordinary threats, too.
And it is not like spellcasters would be unfairly treated if sometimes their spells couldn't affect a particular opponent; how often do rogues find that they can't use sneak attack? What's a fighter supposed to do when confronted by a swarm, or with an obstacle that absolutely requires magic to overcome? Why would it be so bad if the wizard were relegated to a supporting role once in a while?
Although the SR is not truly insurmountable; it is about level +20 in my proposal. Level +10 if purchased as a secondary item. If Jake wants to affect his opponents, he need only add in the appropriate factors. Given the way we are using specialized feats, he probably only needs one feat to get a +30 spell penetration boost for his favorite seed.
However he comes by them spending Spellcraft Prerequisite to boost spell penetration will mean he'll have less factors to boost the save DC- I think that would be a good thing, given what the save DCs can get to. And as for Matt, we can modify Heighten so that +1 level can be used to give +2 to Spell Penetration rather than +1 DC. No problem- in fact, every time Matt does that, it means that the save DC will be easier to make. This could be part of the solution to the problem of high Spell DCs.
Spellcasters will have to guess whether to boost Save DCs or Spell Penetration; they will need tactics. Characters will have to know to deploy their defenses; boost saves, boost SR, get immunity to particular attack forms? Or use the best defense of all; a good offense.
I guess I just don't buy it that character SR has to be capped at their level +10 (or +12 or whatever). I don't think it would be that bad to allow level + 20 at 30th level (assuming a best item). Gradually increasing to level +30 at 60th level (or whatever it is).
If anything, this might be too moderate. A low level party deserves a degree of protection against a high level caster, and level +20 might not cut it.
[edit]
Now I'm getting second thoughts. You have good intuitions about such things; maybe I should trust you.
But I'm thinking that this would basically open yet another front on the arms race; besides having Int-buff items to boost their save DCs, wizards would invest in items of Spell Penetration. In addition to boosting their saving throws, AC and hit points, characters would also boost their SR. I can't help but think this will enrich the game. Characters won't put all their eggs in one basket; they'd have to be flexible and versatile.
But maybe it would stagnate the game. Kinda like if people could get their AC so high that no-one could hit them except on a 20. I'm not sure. Are you?
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