Return of Mystara?

[Alzrius]

James, one question.

I'm something of a dinosaur in that I'm concerned about question of "canonity" in established campaigns. For me, the question of what's "official" and what's not is an important one.

Given that, is this HackMaster version of Mystara actually going to be the Mystara from the old days, with Darokin, Karameikos, the Hollow World, etc., or is it going to "not quite" Mystara, with names changed and such, meaning that it's isn't a direct continuation of the old D&D/AD&D Mystara line.

Same question for Greyhhawk/Greyhack also.

Thanks!

 

[Mystaros]

James, one question.

I'm something of a dinosaur in that I'm concerned about question of "canonity" in established campaigns. For me, the question of what's "official" and what's not is an important one.!

Oy! Canon versus non-Canon. We have had so many arguments about Canon on the Mystara Mailing List since, well, day one of the list it isn't even funny. More bandwidth ahs been spent on that than anything. Let me just say that the Hacklopedia Mystarica will be Canon for the HackMaster version of Mystara, not for the D&D/AD&D version of Mystara. As with anything HackMaster, when playing in an official HMA game, characters set in the HackWurld would have to conform to Canon HackWurld. In personal, private games, they could use whatever they want, in their own variations thereof...

Given that, is this HackMaster version of Mystara actually going to be the Mystara from the old days, with Darokin, Karameikos, the Hollow World, etc., or is it going to "not quite" Mystara, with names changed and such, meaning that it's isn't a direct continuation of the old D&D/AD&D Mystara line.! [/B]

Names of nations and cultures will not change. It will be a direct continuation in the basics of the setting, but the essence of it will be HackMasterized. More Mystaran than Mystara is the mantra here. For example, you could look at a barbarian from the HackWurld Soderfjord Jarldoms and look at a barbarian from the classic Known World Soderfjord Jarldoms and know, right away, that the HackWurld version could wuss-slap the Known World version into the next century. A HackWurld Darokin merchant would be able to trade with a Known World Darokin merchant, and leave the Known World merchant with nothing but a fig leaf. And so forth.

Same question for Greyhhawk/Greyhack also.

Thanks! [/B]

I'm only working on the Hacklopedia Mystarica, I am afraid. I can't really say anything about Greyhack.

 

[Alzrius]

I just noticed over on the thread about this at Kenzer's message boards that Jolly seemed to be saying that Greyhack, Mystaros, and Garweeze World are all separate continents on the same planet (which is named Aldrazar).

That, along with James's answer to my question of canonity, seems to make it pretty clear (at least to me) that none of this is canon in the truest sense of the word (can I nitpick a point or what?). After all, both Greyhawk (as Oerth) and Mystara were their own separate planets themselves in D&D/AD&D, so its a pretty clear indication that they aren't directly picking up those old worlds to modify them. Rather, they're just having some continents which are going to be very coincidentally just like those worlds. The overall effect will (rather ironically I think) be somewhat like Toril, which hosted the Forgotten Realms, Al-Qadim, Oriental Adventures, etc.

With that knowledge in mind, any objections I had to this are dropped. I wish the Kenzer guys the best on their work!

 

[Staffan]

P.S. Why does everybody not like the 2nd edition box sets? I have the Karameikos Box Set, and nothing bad seems to be in it.

Didn't your box have the abysmally stupid "adventure-on-CD" thing?

 

[Holy Bovine]

With that knowledge in mind, any objections I had to this are dropped. I wish the Kenzer guys the best on their work!

Well thanks goodness they got the green light from Alzrius! Lord knows how long that would have held up production


Mystra was very and thourghly destroyed when the attempted 2E conversion was done. Most of the silly flavour of the world was lost and it became another bland FR knockoff.

The thought of the Kenzer team getting ahold of this now dead world and maybe breathing some life into it is a good thing.

Of course if they screw it up we boil them in their own pudding

 

[Alzrius]

Well thanks goodness they got the green light from Alzrius! Lord knows how long that would have held up production

Mwahaha, you have no idea how right you are!

Mystra was very and thourghly destroyed when the attempted 2E conversion was done. Most of the silly flavour of the world was lost and it became another bland FR knockoff.

I had mixed feelings about the 2E Mystara. I felt that, while the idea of converting it to 2E was in essence a good one, it didn't come out right because it was done too piecemeal. A monster book here, a mention of some of the Immortals as deities there ("there" being the appendix in Warriors of Heaven), a CD boxed set off to the side...there just was no collective, unified effort to bring the setting over, and that, IMHO, is why it turned out so badly. It was only compounded by the problem of several integral things to the setting, such as the weird cosmology, the (relative) regularity with which mortals became Immortals, etc., were inimical to the 2E multiverse.

 

[Dahak]

P.S. Why does everybody not like the 2nd edition box sets? I have the Karameikos Box Set, and nothing bad seems to be in it.

I don't hate the 2nd Edition sets per se. I thought the actual setting book in the Karameikos set was rather slickly produced (and I mean that in a good way), but there were a few annoying quirks that really brought it down a notch or five. Just as an example, open up GAZ1 and the Karameikos setting book and check out the ages for the Royal family and other characters in both. Note that the boxed set is set in 1012 (IIRC..)

The fact that the Karameikos and Glantri sets were released in a manner similar to the AD&D FirstQuest boxed set made most uneducated customers assume that it was targeting novices. The adventure book/CD certainly were, but the setting book wasn't. The components essentially didn't appeal to the same audiences.

The 2nd Edition #2400+ line as a whole (Karameikos/Glantri, Poor Wizards III/Joshuan's Almanac, and Red Steel/Savage Coast) seemed like it was developed by persons with no project coordination skills. The Almanacs and the Boxed Settings contained conflicting information on a variety of topics (Marriage of Aleena anyone?). Red Steel is set in the Gazetteer time frame (1000AC), while the boxed sets and almanacs are set post Wrath of the Immortals.

 

[Chauzu]

I don't hate the 2nd Edition sets per se. I thought the actual setting book in the Karameikos set was rather slickly produced (and I mean that in a good way), but there were a few annoying quirks that really brought it down a notch or five. Just as an example, open up GAZ1 and the Karameikos setting book and check out the ages for the Royal family and other characters in both. Note that the boxed set is set in 1012 (IIRC..)

The fact that the Karameikos and Glantri sets were released in a manner similar to the AD&D FirstQuest boxed set made most uneducated customers assume that it was targeting novices. The adventure book/CD certainly were, but the setting book wasn't. The components essentially didn't appeal to the same audiences.

The 2nd Edition #2400+ line as a whole (Karameikos/Glantri, Poor Wizards III/Joshuan's Almanac, and Red Steel/Savage Coast) seemed like it was developed by persons with no project coordination skills. The Almanacs and the Boxed Settings contained conflicting information on a variety of topics (Marriage of Aleena anyone?). Red Steel is set in the Gazetteer time frame (1000AC), while the boxed sets and almanacs are set post Wrath of the Immortals.

I guess I understand a bit now, but I have always avoided any conflicts by ignoring or changing things. Overall though, I think the Karameikos Box Set (which is the only 2nd Edition Mystara product I own) was pretty good.

 

[Staffan]

Red Steel is set in the Gazetteer time frame (1000AC), while the boxed sets and almanacs are set post Wrath of the Immortals.

It was? I don't have Red Steel, but I do have the online Savage Coast stuff (which was basically Red Steel v2) and that was definitely set after WOTI. It was the week without magic at the conclusion of the WotI that weakened the magics that held the Red Curse in check.

 

[ssampier]

Red Steel

I played the Red Steel back in the day and I have to say I though the dog and cat races were rather silly. If I remember correctly the background CD was okay.

Good luck to you on your project. Hackmaster certainly is not my cup of tea, but good luck to you nonetheless