Return old-school terminology: subclass, demihuman, etc.

[Incenjucar]

Demihuman only ever really meant races that were mostly human but slightly different, and D&D is just a bigger game than that anymore.

Humanoid is a much more meaningful term that carries a more useful meaning, especially since it's used outside of D&D and you don't have to explain it to most people. There's no benefit in making the game more difficult for people to grasp.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Is there anyone so shallow that they'd prefer one game over another simply because it uses terminology from a 40 year old relic?

Relic? I wasn't aware rpgs had expiration dates.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Demihuman only ever really meant races that were mostly human but slightly different, and D&D is just a bigger game than that anymore.

There are thousands of gamers or ex-gamers who clearly remember and understand that Demihuman means Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, and Gnome.

There were even two D&D books with that in the title: Demihuman Deities and Demihumans of the Realms.

Humanoid is a much more meaningful term that carries a more useful meaning, especially since it's used outside of D&D and you don't have to explain it to most people. There's no benefit in making the game more difficult for people to grasp.

I don't doubt the logic that Humanoid has come to mean something very specific in 4e.

My understanding is that 5e isn't just a linear continuation of 4e.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I kind of like the term "demihuman". A little old-school terminology wouldn't hurt. Not a huge deal one way or the other.

It's worth noting that 3e brought back a really important piece of old-school language: calling the fiends demons and devils.

 

[Incenjucar]

There are thousands of gamers or ex-gamers who clearly remember and understand that Demihuman means Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, and Gnome.

There were even two D&D books with that in the title: Demihuman Deities and Demihumans of the Realms.

I don't doubt the logic that Humanoid has come to mean something very specific in 4e.

My understanding is that 5e isn't just a linear continuation of 4e.

Humanoid is a term that exists outside of D&D, which people can immediately understand. Demihuman is an unhelpful bit of jargon that has no meaning outside of D&D and a dubious meaning within it. Few English-speaking people over the age of 10 have to ask what you mean when you say "humanoid." This just comes down to effective communication. It has nothing to do with 4th edition whatsoever.

I kind of like the term "demihuman". A little old-school terminology wouldn't hurt. Not a huge deal one way or the other.

It's worth noting that 3e brought back a really important piece of old-school language: calling the fiends demons and devils.

It took jargon terms (Tanar'ri, Baatezu) and replaced them with non-jargon terms (Demon, Devil.). That's not a good idea because it's what was done before, it's a good idea because people - all people - instantly recognize the words and can start forming ideas from them. It's like why we call elves elves and not quess-whatever as they are in FR.

 

[Kynn]

What about the word subraces too?

"Racial variant" is probably a better term.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

"Humanoid" is used all the time in 4E. It's one of the main categories of creatures (along with Beast, for example). No real distinction is made between "common" and "savage" races. An Orc is a Humanoid, as is an Elf.

I don't like Demi-human because "Demi-" caries a connotation of being "less than" something. See: Demigod. I think Elves, Dwarves, etc. should be treated, at least by the rules, as equal to Humans.

Us dwarves like to think of humans as "demidwarven", and find the term "humanoid" to be racist. I hereby move that all races be referred to as "dwarvenoid".

 

[Ahnehnois]

It took jargon terms (Tanar'ri, Baatezu) and replaced them with non-jargon terms (Demon, Devil.). That's not a good idea because it's what was done before, it's a good idea because people - all people - instantly recognize the words and can start forming ideas from them. It's like why we call elves elves and not quess-whatever as they are in FR.

Okay, so the terms are old and good but they're not good because they're old.

I suspect there are other examples of terminology that is old and is also coincidentally better than whatever replaced it, thus my stance.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm all for incorporating the best features from recent iterations. Yet, why not give them an old-school nomenclatorial twist?

What's wrong with "demihuman" and "humanoid"? I know they were dropped in 3e and replaced with the little used euphemisms: "common races" and "savage races", but demihuman and humanoid are D&D words.

I can think of two demihuman races. Half elves and Half orcs. And you try calling a Dwarf a Demihuman and walking away with all your teeth. (Dwarf is bad enough).

Humanoid on the other hand is back. Because it means in D&D what it means out of D&D. Two arms two legs and a head in about the right proportions.

One of those two is good jargon - it says what it means and doesn't give the wrong impression. The other is bad jargon as it's positively misleading, gives the impression that e.g. elves are a lesser type of human (or at the very most humans with prosthetic ears) and adds nothing to the game.

Another example, why not call Themes Subclasses? That has a nice First Edition ring to it. I guess one snag would be if multiple Classes can take the same Subclass.

Exactly. Themes cross-cut classes. That's the point as I understand it. On the other hand subclasses are still around. 4e has them. And themes. They are distinct in 4e.

If the goal is to bring back lost players from earlier editions, it'd make sense to give the fresh mechanics some old-school terminology.

If and only if the old school terminology wouldn't drive players away who either look back with a distinct lack of regret for the passing of that specific old school term, or new players who take a look at words like "demihuman" and say "wait, what?".

 

[dkyle]

Us dwarves like to think of humans as "demidwarven", and find the term "humanoid" to be racist. I hereby move that all races be referred to as "dwarvenoid".

Perhaps the Dwarven word for "Humanoid" translates literally as "Dwarvenoid".