D&D (2024) Return to the 3 saves for 1D&D?

[Zubatcarteira]

Why would you want to break away from BA? It is a cornerstone of the system and probably the single biggest mechanical reason 5E is such a success.

And Wizards (the class) definitely want to use Intelligence saves. It is the reason Tasha's Hideous Laughter, R. Psychic Lance and Synaptic static are such great spells and for the most part better than spells of the same level with more powerful effects on a Wisdom or Constitution save.

I don't see why every save needs to be as useful as every other save. Clearly Wisdom, Dexterity and Constitution are the most important and on one tier while the others are on a different tier, but I don't see why that is bad, especially when every class has proficiency in one "good save" and one "bad save".

Hideous Laughter is a wisdom save, Tasha's Mind Whip would be the Intelligence one.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Honestly, I really dislike the current save system, six are too many, and if you have a low save you're pretty much useless if the enemy is targetting it. I play a Wizard in a westmarch server, and had whole quests where he just spammed Tasha's Mind Whip nonstop since so many enemies have terrible Intelligence saves and will basically auto-fail.

Intelligence and Charisma in particular, there aren't too many effects that target them, but those that do can just annihilate you, and there are a lot of enemies with very low saves on those two, while at least Wisdom people remember to make good.

For players, they'll usually have a couple stats that are low unless they roll godly, and as the levels go up they can just auto-fail against certain effects.

 

[Minigiant]

Honestly, I really dislike the current save system, six are too many, and if you have a low save you're pretty much useless if the enemy is targetting it. I play a Wizard in a westmarch server, and had whole quests where he just spammed Tasha's Mind Whip nonstop since so many enemies have terrible Intelligence saves and will basically auto-fail.

Intelligence and Charisma in particular, there aren't too many effects that target them, but those that do can just annihilate you, and there are a lot of enemies with very low saves on those two, while at least Wisdom people remember to make good.

For players, they'll usually have a couple stats that are low unless they roll godly, and as the levels go up they can just auto-fail against certain effects.

Again these are implementation issues.

If the designers didn't learn the mistakes of 3e, it doesn't matter if you have 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, or 12 saves.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Just do the 6 saves right.

• STRENGTH
  • Forced Movement
  • Knocked Prone
  • Restrants
  • Grapples
• DEXTERITY
  • Quick Direct Attacks
  • Area Elemental damage
• CONSTITUTION
  • Poison
  • Disease
  • Cold
  • Necrotic
• INTELLIGENCE
  • Illusions
  • Psionics
  • Puzzles
• WISDOM
  • Stuns
  • Charms
  • Fear
• CHARISMA
  • Emotional Damage
  • Mind Control
  • Madness
  • Possession
  • Banishment

Completely this, the Ability scores are underutilised as is.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Oh, no, BA is here to stay!

Nah, fam. Good game design will win out eventually.

 

[DEFCON 1]

No, the game will not return to 3 saves. Because it will make the use of older adventures more difficult to use, with DMs needing to translate every mention of one of the six saves into now one of the three new ones.

It could certainly be done if it was at all necessary... but I do not believe it to be that necessary. There is nothing outright wrong with six saves. They are not bad enough to make this major switch to the game. Not enough is gained.

 

[Horwath]

No, the game will not return to 3 saves. Because it will make the use of older adventures more difficult to use, with DMs needing to translate every mention of one of the six saves into now one of the three new ones.

It could certainly be done if it was at all necessary... but I do not believe it to be that necessary. There is nothing outright wrong with six saves. They are not bad enough to make this major switch to the game. Not enough is gained.

while it could be a hassle for 1st session, I think that everyone would switch fast;

str->fort
dex->ref
con->fort
int->will
wis->will
cha->will

 

[Vaalingrade]

while it could be a hassle for 1st session, I think that everyone would switch fast;

str->fort
dex->ref
con->fort
int->will
wis->will
cha->will

I'd prefer

INT -> Ref

But yeah. it's not hard. Then again 'add two' is something people got in a tizzy about.

 

[payn]

I'd prefer

INT -> Ref

But yeah. it's not hard. Then again 'add two' is something people got in a tizzy about.

Too templated. Everyone has the same stat array distributed in 1-2 different ways.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Too templated. Everyone has the same stat array distributed in 1-2 different ways.

Perfect!

And that's the way it shall be!