Revamping the Sorcerer

[GoodKingJayIII]

Let's face it: the flavor and ideas behind this class are wonderful. But implementation is... poor (at least, in my opinion). In many ways, the wizard trumps the sorcerer, and as much as I love the sorcerer class, I see few reasons to actually pick it over the wizard.

So, as many people have done, I'm going to revamp this thing and house rule it. I have ideas, but I'd love to see some suggestions for other abilities, etc. Here are some ideas I've been tossing around:

-increase HD from d4 to d6

-possibly increase skill points to 4 + Int and/or add a few Charisma-based skills (specifically, Use Magic Device

-Gain Detect Magic (Sp) at will, somewhere between 2nd and 6th level

-Every 5th level, a Sorcerer's spells become as natural to cast as walking, talking, and thinking. At 5th level, a Sorcerer's 0- and 1st level spells become Spell-like abilities. At 10th, 2nd level spells become Spell-like abilities. At 15th, 3rd level spells, and at 20th 4th level spells.

-Remove the Familiar ability.

These are just some thoughts I'm having. Clearly, the most questionable is the change from spells to spell-like abilities. It fits flavor, and it's very cool, but I realize it could be way too powerful. What do you all think? Any other suggestions for abilities, changes, etc?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I like the idea of free casting of Detect Magic.

I think the other changes overbalance the Sorceror somewhat, though.

I'd take the bloodline feats from Dragon and apply them to Sorcerors as bonus feats-- the initial bloodline at first level, and the others in a more spread out fashion. I'd also give the Sorceror a free language skill in the language indicated by the Sorceror's bloodline.

I'd put the other social skills on the Sorceror's list, since limited skill points still keeps them far behind the Bard in glibness.

I'd agree with removing the familiar, but I'm not sure what to replace it with.

edit: I agree, Use Magic Device might not be a bad idea.

 

[Calamity]

I don't agree that the implementation is poor for the sorcerer. 3e breathed a new, different light into the 2e magic-user, and out came something very effective.

Advantages of Sorcerer:
Spontaneous casting
Metamagic feats more versatile
More spells per day
Simple weapon proficiency

Advantages of Wizard
Unlimited spell list
Spell slots aquired quicker
Bonus feats
Makes great magic item crafters

The most obvious differences are the way they cast, in that a Sorcerer will never say "damn, I didn't prepare levitate guys, mind waiting 8 hours for me to rest up?". Combine that with having more spell slots, and under most circumstances a Sorcerer would win out a Wizard on the adventuring field.

Giving sorcerer a larger hit dice doesn't make sense, because it is a pure arcane casting class. Nothing about them says "tough" in any sense, not even the possibility of dragon blood (which is not even really true, it's just speculation).

Giving more skill points isn't really neccissary, even if you add Use Magic Device. An "average" (10 Int) sorcerer should not be able to max all of his skills (minus craft) just because his skill point progression and class skills allow him to max them every level.
But Use Magic Device is a good idea, I like that.

Detect Magic, maybe a few times per day, but not at will. Only paladins get something like that, and that's through the power of a deity, not a possibility of draconic blood.

Wow... no way I would let a sorcerer at level 5 cast 0 and 1st level spells as spell-like abilities. That's just not working for me.

Why would you remove the familiar? Wizards have them, druids have them (kind of), rangers have them (kind of), so why not sorcerer?

Anyway, I like some or your ideas. I'm not sure if the core class should be changed to reflect some of your ideas, but rather a prestige class that a sorcerer could take as his 6th level.

 

[Darklone]

Actually, I'd rather remove the familiar from most others...

I don't really get it why the sorcerer is always considered weak or broken. It's just a matter of the campaign. I had sorcerers in dungeon crawls who bested the wizard and I had sorcerers in normal campaigns who saved the whole group with a quick invisibility on each of them. The wizard didn't have 5 invis prepared... so what?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Actually, I'd rather remove the familiar from most others...

I don't really get it why the sorcerer is always considered weak or broken. It's just a matter of the campaign. I had sorcerers in dungeon crawls who bested the wizard and I had sorcerers in normal campaigns who saved the whole group with a quick invisibility on each of them. The wizard didn't have 5 invis prepared... so what?

I've never found the Sorceror particularly weak-- my main problem is that the flavor text sets up a very interesting origin for the class (arcane power deriving from a powerful heritage) and then drops it. In my opinion, incorporating the Bloodline rules from Dragon as part of an automatic class progression makes the class more rich, without making it considerably more powerful.

It's the same with adding the social skills to their skill list. Their counterpart, the Wizard, is an incredible crafter of magical items, and their Craft skills reflect this. Likewise, the Wizard is a sage, and his access to Knowledge skills reflects this.

The Sorceror is neither of these things, so his almost identical skill list makes far less sense. Adding the social skills and UMD makes him stand out both as less bookish and as far more naturally inclined towards magic. It also helps the Sorceror make more use of his Charisma, as the Wizard can make use of his Intelligence with his long list of Intelligence-based skills.

 

[Gez]

You can look at the link in my sig.

But I've streamlined it some since. Once I'll finished and done some mock playtesting, I'll update that thread.

 

[Li Shenron]

I also feel that Sorcerers are ok. If anyway you want a revamp idea, eat this:

A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/ wizard spell list.

A cleric casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list.

A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list.

A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list.

Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list.

Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list.

A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. ... These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study.

I don't think they really meant it, but you can rule that "primarily" (which for some unknown reason appears only in the Sorc's description) means that the Sorcerer can learn spells from others' lists. It won't make him more powerful but definitely more versatile, and would give him access to every scroll/want/staff.

 

[Gez]

It's a holdover from the first drafts of 3.0. I'm surprised they didn't yanked it away.

It was meant to allow sorcerers to get spells from other sources than the Player's Handbook (like Tome & Blood, Relics & Rituals, or Spells & Spellcraft).

People understood it as the possibility for sorcerers to learn bard spells -- most notably the cure spells.


And of course, in the SRD, it just don't make sense. What's missing in "drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list" is "published in the Player's Handbook".

 

[Plane Sailing]

I hear that quintessential sorcerer from Mongoose has some nifty ideas for spicing up the sorcerer. Might be worth a look?

 

[Li Shenron]

It's a holdover from the first drafts of 3.0. I'm surprised they didn't yanked it away.

It was meant to allow sorcerers to get spells from other sources than the Player's Handbook (like Tome & Blood, Relics & Rituals, or Spells & Spellcraft).

Oui je saix... but the thing I wanted to make fun of is that this holdover is there ONLY for the Sorcerer