Review: Jon Peterson's The Elusive Shift

Voadam

Legend
On Ch 2: I admit I am intrigued by the idea of playing in a way that insulates the players from the rules. It doesn't seem possible with modern D&D, but could conceivably work well with more narrative games.
It could be done in 5e.

Have a copy of their sheets. Have them declare their actions, but you handle the rolls where you can, then declare results.

This will be more immersive for them and take a bunch of rules out from immediate view from the player perspective. Downside is losing the fun of actively rolling. And the extra work for the DM. Players will still track things like slots and gear and hp. Extreme no visible rules would not even say hp, just wounded or not. Which would mess with judging healing a bunch.
 

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Reynard

Legend
It could be done in 5e.

Have a copy of their sheets. Have them declare their actions, but you handle the rolls where you can, then declare results.

This will be more immersive for them and take a bunch of rules out from immediate view from the player perspective. Downside is losing the fun of actively rolling. And the extra work for the DM. Players will still track things like slots and gear and hp. Extreme no visible rules would not even say hp, just wounded or not. Which would mess with judging healing a bunch.
What I meant is that you can't build a character isolated from the rules. Secret rolls might help with immersion but it's not quite the same thing.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
It could be done in 5e.

Have a copy of their sheets. Have them declare their actions, but you handle the rolls where you can, then declare results.

This will be more immersive for them and take a bunch of rules out from immediate view from the player perspective. Downside is losing the fun of actively rolling. And the extra work for the DM. Players will still track things like slots and gear and hp. Extreme no visible rules would not even say hp, just wounded or not. Which would mess with judging healing a bunch.
You’d need to return to the old ways of random stats, random background, and only needing to pick race and class at 1st. Buy gear and go. Any more choices than that, feats, subclass, etc utterly breaks this walled-off approach. Unless you presented those in game as diegetic rewards for choices made in game. The more complicated the system the harder this is to pull off. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible without trying it, but you’d have to have newb players and somehow keep them off the D&D internet spaces and keep them from buying and reading the books.

There’s a story of Dave Arneson’s players being elated when the rules to OD&D came out because they could finally see the rules. Dave laughed and told them those weren’t the rules he used.

This approach, running a blackbox game, is one style of the Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance (FKR). They also tend towards minimalism, verisimilitude, and focusing on the fictional world presented rather than the rules of the game. Anyone interested should check them out.
 
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Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I finished Chapter 1. It really is impressive that fights over "one true wayism" were present so early and still going on. Also, now I want to start a Coventry style fantasy campaign over Discord (but don't have the time).
Coventry! That was the name I was trying to remember last week.

On Ch 2: I admit I am intrigued by the idea of playing in a way that insulates the players from the rules. It doesn't seem possible with modern D&D, but could conceivably work well with more narrative games.
FKR (Free Kriegspiel Revolution) seems about the closest we'll get, unless we limit it to brand new players.

 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
@Reynard

If you're interested, there were a number of additional posts after this which dealt with the topics raised in the book.

Go to this thread-

Section 2 has the primary collection... "2. A Little Bit About Jon Peterson (Game Wizards, Elusive Shift)"

The last three in that section deal with topics specifically raised in Elusive Shift.
 




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