D&D (2024) Revised 6E prediction thread

[Justice and Rule]

From 5E the layout is bad and index us useless. Bought the PDF and wife was enthusiastic but that died when she has to reference all sorts of things trying to put her bard togather. We both just gave up. The books just to big to much as well.

Yeah, I don't think the layout is great, though I found it incredibly easy to make a character. In fact, I found it a lot quicker than 5E simply because I'm not trying to squeeze out as much as I can from backgrounds and such to get a proper character concept at 1st Level.

From 3E its just got a huge amount of feats, probably more than the initial 3.0 book. A lot are just more if the +1 here and there but then there's just more categories to learn.

I mean, there's 4 categories, really: Ancestry feats, Class feats, General feats, and the General Feat subdivision Skill feats. Not sure how hard this is.

From 4E it kind of has that layout, classes look samey and reads like an instruction manual. It's boring and awful to read.

I dunno, I found having a consistent layout made it pretty easy to comprehend and follow. And honestly, it's not like 5E is blindingly exciting to read in the book: it's what you get on the tabletop. And that's where it works best: the classes have plenty of actual differentiation while still being relatively balanced, so you don't have the problem of the 5E Sorcerer feeling like barely its own class, or martials constantly being outdone by casters. It also doesn't have like a dozen halfcasting classes, which is a huge plus.

Then there's things unique to it like the races. It's just more steps and complications for the sake of complications.

At this point it feels like you are making things up because you didn't think anyone would actually call you out. Having unique races makes it too difficult for your to comprehend or something? What sort of complaint is this?

Arts bad as well such as the cover.

I'm not huge on Wayne Reynolds, but I think the art is generally fine. I don't think there are any "5e Halfling" scale fumbles in it, at least.

It kinda played alright but for the amount of work required not worth it and houserulng early PF1 works.

lmao

No one's running it either so if we wanted to play it I have to GM it and probably buy everything then try and convince my players to give it a shot.

Both of us could probably figure it out but I don't see my current group handling it well or no group I've had since 2005 or so.

I would be willing to play it but not run it. Wife really wants to play the bard but need to buy the book I suppose vs pdf.

Doesn't really matter how well it runs if you can't get people to play or run it. For reasons entirely self inflicted.

I dunno, seems like the third-most played game on Fantasy Grounds and fourth-most on Roll20. Seems like it'd be pretty hard to find a lot of games if you can't find this being played, but to be honest with these sorts of reasons, feels like you're not looking particularly hard.

You could just use this; Fast Character | D&D Character Sheets Instantly For DnD 5e

Fill in the traits and stuff you want, then once it is done make further tweaks to meet the exact specifications you'd like. The reason the books are large is because some folks like poring over details minutely (a couple players of mine love combing over fine details), but there are plenty of programs online to speed the process.

I think he's talking about Pathfinder 2, but this is available with Pathbuilder as well. I can make a character in a few minutes with it.

 

[Zardnaar]

You could just use this; Fast Character | D&D Character Sheets Instantly For DnD 5e

Fill in the traits and stuff you want, then once it is done make further tweaks to meet the exact specifications you'd like. The reason the books are large is because some folks like poring over details minutely (a couple players of mine love combing over fine details), but there are plenty of programs online to speed the process.

It's easy enough now just the index is useless and the spell descriptions worse than 3.5.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, I don't think the layout is great, though I found it incredibly easy to make a character. In fact, I found it a lot quicker than 5E simply because I'm not trying to squeeze out as much as I can from backgrounds and such to get a proper character concept at 1st Level.



I mean, there's 4 categories, really: Ancestry feats, Class feats, General feats, and the General Feat subdivision Skill feats. Not sure how hard this is.



I dunno, I found having a consistent layout made it pretty easy to comprehend and follow. And honestly, it's not like 5E is blindingly exciting to read in the book: it's what you get on the tabletop. And that's where it works



At this point it feels like you are making things up because you didn't think anyone would actually call you out. Having unique races makes it too difficult for your to comprehend or something? What sort of complaint is this?



I'm not huge on Wayne Reynolds, but I think the art is generally fine. I don't think there are any "5e Halfling" scale fumbles in it, at least.



lmao

I dunno, seems like the third-most played game on Fantasy Grounds and fourth-most on Roll20. Seems like it'd be pretty hard to find a lot of games if you can't find this being played, but to be honest with these sorts of reasons, feels like you're not looking particularly hard.



I think he's talking about Pathfinder 2, but this is available with Pathbuilder as well. I can make a character in a few minutes with it.

We don't play online. May as well not exist for us.

Main point is there's to many feats with to many steps that's laid out badly.

If you like it great but that's our experience with it.

 

[Justice and Rule]

We don't play online. May as well not exist for us.

If you don't play online, it'd be pretty dang hard regardless. As it stands, before we got to lockdown I saw Society games being played at a wargames convention. I feel like this says more about your bubble than the game.

Main point is there's to many feats with to many steps that's laid out badly.

I mean, the ABC stuff is pretty damn easy. I mistook what you were saying before and really disagree: I think some rules can be difficult to find, but actual character creation is incredibly smooth. It needs a better index and organization, but how to make a character is done incredibly easily. It's not like I have to look in a weird place to find feats like 5E, or have to look in an odd spot to find out how my skills work out.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you don't play online, it'd be pretty dang hard regardless. As it stands, before we got to lockdown I saw Society games being played at a wargames convention. I feel like this says more about your bubble than the game.



I mean, the ABC stuff is pretty damn easy. I mistook what you were saying before and really disagree: I think some rules can be difficult to find, but actual character creation is incredibly smooth. It needs a better index and organization, but how to make a character is done incredibly easily. It's not like I have to look in a weird place to find feats like 5E, or have to look in an odd spot to find out how my skills work out.

Don't game at conventions either and if I did I wouldn't be picking PF2.

As I said would be willing to play it but not run it.

 

[ClamShack]

This may be in the 5e DM guide already, but I think that having a concrete, practical method for creating an adventure--specifically, a dungeon--should be included in the next iteration, like what is in the Moldvay/Mentzer Basic rules.

Creating a dungeon in Basic DnD has a very similar feel to creating a character, what with rolling for monsters, traps, and treasures to populate the dungeon. I created one for the first time for my kids not too long ago, and I found it very entertaining. You roll separately for each room, and stories about the dungeon emerged as you build. "Why are these monsters here? I rolled for a magic sword +1/+3 versus dragons; why is it in the toilet?" Etc.

Contra the Basic DnD philosophy, though, I think the first dungeon should be loaded with treasure and XP. Get the players to 2nd level as soon as possible. Then, slow the pace down.

The 4e core DMG had a method for randomly creating dungeons, rolling for different rooms and hallways, and using a stack of cards for monster encounters.

The 5E DMG appendices have all this. I'm surprised that such a classic & staple feature of the game is relatively unknown, but I suppose this is deliberate in order to sell more pre-made campaigns.

 

[OB1]

If I were to guess how 6E "evolutionizes," it would be more of what we saw in Tasha's, with both an implicit and explicit element. The implicit would be to modernize the socio-cultural aesthetics, both in terms of the art presented but also deconstruction of some of the hard-written assumptions about race, emphasis on violence, etc.

Really want to focus on your last point here about the emphasis on violence in 5E. I think you're hitting on something that is right on the cusp of a trend evolutionizing and modernizing entertainment in general and that we are seeing in D&D as well. Whether it's Tasha's section regarding parlaying with monsters or recent episodes of Critical Roll that may see 8+ hours of game time go by without combat as conflict resolution it feels like this concept is being explored more and more in response to changing tastes of the younger generations.

Yet 5e is heavily geared towards using violence as resolution to conflict in it's very rule structure. Sure it's possible to use the presented rules to run a combatless game, but at this point, it requires a major investment from the DM to pull off, and will likely leave many classes feeling somewhat useless.

Could an adventure path that focuses almost entirely on the social and exploration pillars work in 5e? Something that evokes a more Star Trek: TNG feel? Imagine Naturalists of Gia, where the premise is a small outpost in a distant magical land whose explorers are dedicated to understanding the world rather than fighting it. Where the use of violence is an absolute last resort and one that carries with it real consequences for the party. If such a book proved successful, could it lead to a 5E CSG companion for players and DMs that expands on that premise and gives rules as clear as the Combat pillar for overcoming Social and Exploration challenges that is just as much fun as the combat mini-game is? That adds sub-classes specifically designed for every Class that lean into this premise.

And if so, would that be the strongest reason yet to launch a '6E'? Will it be required to keep D&D relevant to the next generation of players?

Please note that I'm not saying D&D will tomorrow get rid of combat, or even assume that a game would be played that way. I expect for as long as I am playing (hopefully another 40 years, well into my 80s) that will be an option. What I am suggesting is that combat may become just one of many ways to play the game, rather than the assumed default.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Really want to focus on your last point here about the emphasis on violence in 5E. I think you're hitting on something that is right on the cusp of a trend evolutionizing and modernizing entertainment in general and that we are seeing in D&D as well. Whether it's Tasha's section regarding parlaying with monsters or recent episodes of Critical Roll that may see 8+ hours of game time go by without combat as conflict resolution it feels like this concept is being explored more and more in response to changing tastes of the younger generations.

Yet 5e is heavily geared towards using violence as resolution to conflict in it's very rule structure. Sure it's possible to use the presented rules to run a combatless game, but at this point, it requires a major investment from the DM to pull off, and will likely leave many classes feeling somewhat useless.

Could an adventure path that focuses almost entirely on the social and exploration pillars work in 5e? Something that evokes a more Star Trek: TNG feel? Imagine Naturalists of Gia, where the premise is a small outpost in a distant magical land whose explorers are dedicated to understanding the world rather than fighting it. Where the use of violence is an absolute last resort and one that carries with it real consequences for the party. If such a book proved successful, could it lead to a 5E CSG companion for players and DMs that expands on that premise and gives rules as clear as the Combat pillar for overcoming Social and Exploration challenges that is just as much fun as the combat mini-game is? That adds sub-classes specifically designed for every Class that lean into this premise.

And if so, would that be the strongest reason yet to launch a '6E'? Will it be required to keep D&D relevant to the next generation of players?

Please note that I'm not saying D&D will tomorrow get rid of combat, or even assume that a game would be played that way. I expect for as long as I am playing (hopefully another 40 years, well into my 80s) that will be an option. What I am suggesting is that combat may become just one of many ways to play the game, rather than the assumed default.

we are more likely to see tacked on slightly disconnected exploration and social systems before a 6e as 6e will more likely be a streamlining edition more than anything else.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Really want to focus on your last point here about the emphasis on violence in 5E. I think you're hitting on something that is right on the cusp of a trend evolutionizing and modernizing entertainment in general and that we are seeing in D&D as well. Whether it's Tasha's section regarding parlaying with monsters or recent episodes of Critical Roll that may see 8+ hours of game time go by without combat as conflict resolution it feels like this concept is being explored more and more in response to changing tastes of the younger generations.

Yet 5e is heavily geared towards using violence as resolution to conflict in it's very rule structure. Sure it's possible to use the presented rules to run a combatless game, but at this point, it requires a major investment from the DM to pull off, and will likely leave many classes feeling somewhat useless.

Could an adventure path that focuses almost entirely on the social and exploration pillars work in 5e? Something that evokes a more Star Trek: TNG feel? Imagine Naturalists of Gia, where the premise is a small outpost in a distant magical land whose explorers are dedicated to understanding the world rather than fighting it. Where the use of violence is an absolute last resort and one that carries with it real consequences for the party. If such a book proved successful, could it lead to a 5E CSG companion for players and DMs that expands on that premise and gives rules as clear as the Combat pillar for overcoming Social and Exploration challenges that is just as much fun as the combat mini-game is? That adds sub-classes specifically designed for every Class that lean into this premise.

And if so, would that be the strongest reason yet to launch a '6E'? Will it be required to keep D&D relevant to the next generation of players?

Please note that I'm not saying D&D will tomorrow get rid of combat, or even assume that a game would be played that way. I expect for as long as I am playing (hopefully another 40 years, well into my 80s) that will be an option. What I am suggesting is that combat may become just one of many ways to play the game, rather than the assumed default.

Random Actions by Monsters: Other than in pursuit situations, the more intelligent monsters will act randomly according to the results of the score rolled on two (six-sided) dice:
2–5 negative reaction
6–8 uncertain reaction
9–12 positive reaction
The dice score is to be modified by additions and subtractions for such things as bribes offered, fear, alignment of the parties concerned, etc.

Obviously, some of these creatures will not always be hostile. Some may offer aid and assistance. To determine the reaction of such creatures, roll 2 dice:
HOSTILE/FRIENDLY REACTION TABLE
Score Reaction
2 Attacks immediately!
3-5 Hostile reaction
6-8 Uncertain, make another offer, roll again
9-11 Accepts offer, friendly
12 Enthusiastic, volunteers help
The Dungeon Master should make adjustments if the party spokesman has high charisma or offers special inducements.

Look at those odds. 5 or lower on 2d6 is about 28%, and even then, monsters only attack first on (Charisma-unmodified) snake-eyes. Violence was not originally D&D's default conflict resolution method, and it didn't become so until… well, when did reaction tables go away and XP for killing monsters of a certain Challenge Rating become a thing?

 

[tetrasodium]

we are more likely to see tacked on slightly disconnected exploration and social systems before a 6e as 6e will more likely be a streamlining edition more than anything else.

I don't think that it's possible to "streamline" 5e much further. What would they do? remove movement weapon ranges & damage dice to just roll a d20 to decide if you kill a creature you see or not based on if the result is 1-4 miss or 5-20 kill?