Revised Bard - comments appreciated

[der_kluge]

I wrote this bard variant up this weekend.

Essentially, it's a bard with a reduced sorcerer spell-casting ability, and no summon familiar, and no bardic music.

If I get inspired, I might write up a similar one that is based on Int-based casting.

It might be a *tad* on the powerful side, since this version gets 9th level spells, albeit fewer than a sorcerer, yet has bard saves, and BAB, both of which are better than sorcerer. So, in theory it seems balanced. I usually tend to give Sorcerers bonus meta-magic feats ala wizards every 5th level, and a free eschew materials at 1st level, so my sorcerer is usually beefed up anyway.

 

[two]

I assume this revised bard gets no special bard abilities besides bardic knowledge? (no inspire courage, etc. etc.)? Otherwise it's clearly over-the-top too powerful.

If your word document, on the other hand, is exactly what the bard gets, no more and no less, it's a pretty easy call.

Compare to a cleric: worse armor, Arcane spell failure, fewer spells known, no domains/special abilities, fewer spells per level, etc. Same BAB, same saves 2 good, 1 bad. Cleric has better hit dice too. Cleric has much worse skills.

Advantages: sorcerer spell list vs. clerical spell list. Advantage, bard. I think. Very debatable.

I can't see how this bard looks that powerful compared to a cleric. Then again, we all know about uber clerics.

Seems fine to me. Would make a good self-buffing melee or ranged attacker. Can't compete with full casters, which is fine.

Note: nearly flavorless. Bardic Knowledge is all that makes this a bard, vs. just another base class (mage/fighter? spellslinger archer? etc.)

 

[der_kluge]

Not sure I follow your logic of class abilities=flavor.
If that were true, every fighter would be just as bland as every other fighter.

This approach intended to accomplish a couple of things: Remove bardic music, which I've always felt was awkward and silly. And provide the bard a more flexible spell selection. As it is, Bard's are "forced" into taking enchantment/charm spells. A lot of the benefit from the bard spell selection comes in the form of heightened spells, like suggestion at a lower level than wizard. If *this* is the Bard that appeals to you, great. If, however, you want to play a transmutor bard, or an illusionist bard, or even a buff/abjurer bard, you are severely limited given the current class.

By removing the Bard spell list, I have provided more flexibility to the class, yet maintaining the Bard's class skill list of things like Diplomacy, speak language, and Use Magic Device, which give the bard a sense of uniqueness.

 

[two]

To some extent, class abilities do equate to flavor. They often lend great flavor.

"Hide in Plain Sight" makes sense and helps define Shadowdancers.
"Defensive Stance" is perfect for the immobile Dwarven tank paradigm.
"Harm's Way" makes a Devoted Defender something besides simply a fighter who looks after a ward.
Etc.

Fighters are bland. They have no "out of the box" flavor. They can be given flavor through feat choice and fighting style, however, more than any other class because of all the bonus feats.

How does this Bard class differ from an Eldritch Knight build, for example?

(compare at level 20, for example).

Very similar, except your bard has bardic knowlege. The EK a familiar, and better weapons. (and more feats, probably). Bard more skills.

More Bardic class abilities would better distinguish this bard from ye olde typical half-mage half-fighter.

Not unbalanced, however, as I said before, power-wise.

Answer me this: why are you calling this a Bard, instead of a "fighting mage?" class? If the only difference is bardic knowledge...then that class feature is supplying flavor, and I would like more flavor.

Class features don't have to be powerful to be flavorful. Could give +2 to all diplomacy checks, at bard level 10 or something, or identify weapon ability, due to knowledge of history, etc. etc.

 

[der_kluge]

Not sure why you're trying to compare a base class to a prestige class... but anyway...

I don't have to call this a bard. It's for people who like the concept of a bard (i.e., as a politician with ranks in diplomacy, etc) but don't like the concept of bardic music.

It may not be for everyone.

 

[Nifft]

Looks a bit like UA's Battle Sorcerer. Both have up to 9th level spells, fewer known/per day than a regular Sorcerer, 3/4 BAB, casting in light armor and better than a d4 for hp.

(Of course, the Bard has better saves and FAR better skills, while the Battle Sorcerer has... er... a familiar.)

All in all, yours is a bit on the strong side I'd say.

-- N

 

[Cartigan Mrryl]

Ummmm... this wouldn't work. It wouldn't be a Bard. Bards are there for their music and Bardic Knowledge, but they're called a bard because of the whole performance-thing. No offense, but I don't like it. It has nothing to do with the stats, I just don't agree with a Bard that doesn't have music.