Revised fighter feats

[Nifft]

Weeeeeeeell, I dunno. The Exotic Weapon Master requires Weapon Focus, so they'd go nicely together, but the Exotic Weapon Tricks aren't anything like a more limited selection of bonus feats.

Maybe a decent Fighter boost would be to make all the Exotic Weapon Tricks into Fighter-only Feats, which require 6 levels of Ftr to take?

-- N

 

[Nifft]

(NOTE: the above applies only to the CW version, as my MotW is packed away for a long, cold sleep with the rest of my 3.0 cargo.)

-- N

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

My proposition is a little frightening, but should be taken in context of the levels required and the class it is being applied to.

11th level fighters gain Weapon Focus in every weapon they are proficient with.
15th level fighters gain Weapon Specialization in every weapon they are proficient with.
19th level fighters gain Improved Critical in every weapon they are proficient with.

Too radical? Not what you had in mind?

Not radical enough! Meaning, I'd lower the levels at which the fighter picks up those bonuses. Maybe 4th, 8th, and 12th.

Personally, I prefer the idea of weapon groups and having feats that apply to a single weapon apply to a weapon group instead. Lets fighters enjoy their abilities with a wider range of weapons without a radical rule change and is still balanced. I prefer my rule changes simple and inobtrusive, if possible.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Ulorian
Not radical enough! Meaning, I'd lower the levels at which the fighter picks up those bonuses. Maybe 4th, 8th, and 12th.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think the point was partly to give anyone a reason to put levels into Fighter past 12th. Atm, there is no reason to and without giving him an ability above 12th, there still is no reason.

Also, there is the weapon groups in Unearthed Arcana. I'm not sure if Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization, for example, can be applied to the groups or not. I think they can be and I thought I had a better reason for stating this...I'm sure I did and if I think about it, I'll post it. (My friend owns the book though I do not, so I cannot check on this.)

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Unless I'm mistaken, I think the point was partly to give anyone a reason to put levels into Fighter past 12th. Atm, there is no reason to and without giving him an ability above 12th, there still is no reason..

I agree that Fighters need abilities past 12th level. I don't think this is the way to do it though. These abilities aren't powerful enough to be special abilities at the levels given in the original post.

I also don't think that this is a good house rule because these are feats that can be picked up at much lower levels. There are two scenarios here:

1) The Fighter doesn't take the Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or Improved Critical feats because he will eventually be getting them for free.

Result: he is somewhat crippled for most of his career because those special abilities don't kick in until long after he could have picked them up as feats.

2) The Fighter takes the aforementioned feats when they become available in the weapon he normally uses.

Result: the special abilities are greatly lessened in usefulness, because they now only benefit weapons that he rarely, if ever, uses.

Also, there is the weapon groups in Unearthed Arcana. I'm not sure if Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization, for example, can be applied to the groups or not. I think they can be and I thought I had a better reason for stating this...I'm sure I did and if I think about it, I'll post it. (My friend owns the book though I do not, so I cannot check on this.)

I made this point twice in this thread already.. including the one you quoted me from! Definitely the way to go I think.

I just checked: the Unearthed Arcana does offer applying these types of feats (Weapon Focus, etc.) to weapon groups as a variant rule. Even if it didn't, that would be no reason to not allow this application of Weapon Focus and related feats.

 

[green slime]

I agree, Fighters are sorely lacking in high level feats, and reasons to go beyond 12th. IMC, I have greatly restricted the access to fighting feats for other classes, to provide more incentive.

Still, I feel there needs to be more. And I don't really feel that just tweeking +1 to hit or damage with a group of weapons or not is really enough.

There should be more weapon specific feats. Feats that can pnly be performed with swords, feats with only budgeoning weapons, feats for spears, feats that allow for amazing moves and manuevers. Feats that make people sit up and notice. "! He knows the three-dead-monkeys move!"

Three Dead Monkeys
Your skill with a blade and fluidity across the battlefield are a sight that needs to be seen to be believed.
Prerequisites: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus (any Sword), Weapon Specialization (any Sword), Improved Critical (any sword), Skill Focus (tumble), Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (any sword), tumble (X ranks), Greater Weapon Specialization (any sword) Fighter 16th.
Benefit: You may resolve your normal full attack and move a distance up to your speed at any time during the attack routine as a full-round action.

(note: just thrown together on the spur of the moment... )

So a great sword wielder using the above feat could move up to an enemy (10ft), kill him with two blows, move up to the next (ten feet), Strike twice again, before retreating ten feet.

Those are the kind of feats I want to see for high level martial artists. Feats that require huge amounts of dedication and feats but that really make the battle go. Not some +½ to damage when circling backwards over manhole covers.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Ulorian
I agree that Fighters need abilities past 12th level. I don't think this is the way to do it though. These abilities aren't powerful enough to be special abilities at the levels given in the original post.

I agree that they aren't powerful enough. I don't really recall what I was thinking at the time though...Great argument, eh?

Originally posted by Ulorian
I made this point twice in this thread already.. including the one you quoted me from! Definitely the way to go I think.

I know the point was made about the weapon groups, but I was just trying to point out that this had been thought of in an official WOTC source and that there were rules on this kind of thing.

Originally posted by green slime
There should be more weapon specific feats. Feats that can pnly be performed with swords, feats with only budgeoning weapons, feats for spears, feats that allow for amazing moves and manuevers. Feats that make people sit up and notice. "! He knows the three-dead-monkeys move!"

I think Three-Dead-Monkeys-No-Jitsu would be a better name. I think there should be feats/techniques to create effects like those found in an uber anime called Naruto. Some of those abilities I would love to use in Dnd. Shadow Replication, Replacement Technique, etc. They have Naruto Ramen...maybe Naruto d20 will be next.

 

[Blue]

Three Dead Monkeys
Your skill with a blade and fluidity across the battlefield are a sight that needs to be seen to be believed.
Prerequisites: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus (any Sword), Weapon Specialization (any Sword), Improved Critical (any sword), Skill Focus (tumble), Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (any sword), tumble (X ranks), Greater Weapon Specialization (any sword) Fighter 16th.
Benefit: You may resolve your normal full attack and move a distance up to your speed at any time during the attack routine as a full-round action.

I think feat chains with incredible numebrs of prerequisites (like Three Dead Monkeys needing TEN feats hurts fighter uniqueness. the only reason to have such a loing feat chain is to have really cool payoff. Which means lots of fighters will go the route of one of these feat chains. What that adds up to is that with a feat chain like this that takes up every single fighter feat to get at 20th level (or a bit sooner if you use your every 3 levels feats and play a human), you end up with a bunch of fighters who all have the same feats.

"Oh look, another Three Monkey Dead fighter. We know exactly what he can do. Fly up and attack with bows, he won't have any ranged attack feats."

I'm all for high level fighter abilities, but feat chains that eat up the fighters special ability of amazing choice don't do it for me.

Cheers,
=Blue

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I think feat chains with incredible numebrs of prerequisites (like Three Dead Monkeys needing TEN feats hurts fighter uniqueness. the only reason to have such a loing feat chain is to have really cool payoff. Which means lots of fighters will go the route of one of these feat chains. What that adds up to is that with a feat chain like this that takes up every single fighter feat to get at 20th level (or a bit sooner if you use your every 3 levels feats and play a human), you end up with a bunch of fighters who all have the same feats.

"Oh look, another Three Monkey Dead fighter. We know exactly what he can do. Fly up and attack with bows, he won't have any ranged attack feats."

I'm all for high level fighter abilities, but feat chains that eat up the fighters special ability of amazing choice don't do it for me.

Cheers,
=Blue

Well said.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I know the point was made about the weapon groups, but I was just trying to point out that this had been thought of in an official WOTC source and that there were rules on this kind of thing.

Ah, I understand now.