Revised monk

[Kerrick]

That's the standard bonus movement from the original monk; I just placed the level increases 1 higher than normal (2, 5, 8, etc. instead of 3, 6, 9, etc.). I never understood the huge bonus speed, but I thought it'd work well for a Wind Style monk. I could tone it down a little (maybe drop the increases to every 4 levels). This guy seems to be bent on optimizing his monk for speed, though, so it'd be kind of hard to judge based on that.

 

[Sylrae]

the standard monk increase that much? damn. I don't usually play monks, didn't know that.

Well, if its that big a bonus, the we have to give at least part of it to the other schools, it's too big to compare to some of the other abilities. either that, or give a lowered bonus to air.

If we give all of them the speed bonuses, they should probably go like this:

Mountain: 20
Sea: 30
Sun: 40
Wind: 50

if you're dead set on wind having the +70 for wind

Mountain: 20
Sea: 30
Sun: 50
Wind: 70

might work.

if theyre the only martial arts school that gets the fast movement, I think maybe the fast movement should be limited to +20. maybe +30 if the last+10 was after level 16. Like at 2, and every 7 levels later, or somethign like that.

Also, Kerrick, I got something sweet out of that post about fixing the cleric I had going. It might be what you were looking for in your new cleric. Check this out>http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4359487#post4359487

 

[Kerrick]

I'm of two minds about the fast movement - one the one hand, I can't really justify giving it to the other styles (except maybe Sun), but on the other, it's pretty much a must-have ability for the Wind Style (especially over Leap of the Clouds, since speed affects how far you can jump). In either case, it definitely needs toned down. I might just put it back as a base class ability and make the speed increases vary by style, then come up with another Acolyte-level Wind ability. Or I could ditch it entirely and just give them Burst of Speed - 3 times per day, they can move twice as fast for 3+Dex mod rounds.

 

[Sylrae]

I'm of two minds about the fast movement - one the one hand, I can't really justify giving it to the other styles (except maybe Sun), but on the other, it's pretty much a must-have ability for the Wind Style (especially over Leap of the Clouds, since speed affects how far you can jump). In either case, it definitely needs toned down. I might just put it back as a base class ability and make the speed increases vary by style, then come up with another Acolyte-level Wind ability. Or I could ditch it entirely and just give them Burst of Speed - 3 times per day, they can move twice as fast for 3+Dex mod rounds.

If you agree it needs toning down, and that it probably shouldn't exist in Mountain or Sea, particularly mountain, here are some other ideas.

Mountain: +0
Sea: +10
Sun: +20
Wind: +30

Much smaller bonuses, but I think it could work. or if you want to really restrict it then
Mountain: +0
Sea: +0
Sun: +10
Wind: +20

could be the way to go.

I like the 0 10 20 30 personally.

youd need to offset it a little to give the mountain, sea, and sun things to compensate for the slower movement. It's not that powerful, so maybe you could just tweak a few of their abilities to be a bit more powerful, or do a combination of damage and armor bonuses depending on which school. Mountain could have a higher damage type and armor, sea higher armor, and sun higher damage.

 

[Kerrick]

I think what I'll do is give everyone a speed increase, but do it like you did AC - Mountain advances more slowly and has a lower cap, then Sea, Sun, and Wind at the top. Monks aren't meant to be front-line fighters, so they need additional speed to get away from enemies/move around the battlefield.

So it'd look something like this:

(Fast movement listed at L3.)

Wind: +10 ft. at 3/6/9/12/15/18

Sun: +10 ft. at 4/8/12/16/20

Sea: +10 ft. at 5/10/15/20

Mountain: +10 ft. at 6/12/18


And then we can give Wind... oh, I dunno, some other ability at Acolyte level.

 

[Sylrae]

I think what I'll do is give everyone a speed increase, but do it like you did AC - Mountain advances more slowly and has a lower cap, then Sea, Sun, and Wind at the top. Monks aren't meant to be front-line fighters, so they need additional speed to get away from enemies/move around the battlefield.

So it'd look something like this:

(Fast movement listed at L3.)

Wind: +10 ft. at 3/6/9/12/15/18

Sun: +10 ft. at 4/8/12/16/20

Sea: +10 ft. at 5/10/15/20

Mountain: +10 ft. at 6/12/18


And then we can give Wind... oh, I dunno, some other ability at Acolyte level.

I think that still might be too big for wind. and at the same time, it's something you'll need to beef up the other styles a bit to counter for the lack of, so you'd need to take the speed into account.

I'd move everyone down on your table. But I dont personally think any of them should get a bonus higher than 40 ft.

Wind: +10 ft. at 5/10/15/20

Sun: +10 ft. at 6/12/18

Sea: +10 ft. at 7/14 or (8/16)

Mountain: +10 ft. at 8/16 or (10/20) or just 11


you could make everything go earlier.

Wind: +10 ft. at 3/8/13/18(5-2)
Sun: +10 ft. at 5/11/17(6-1)
Sea: +10 ft. at 7/14(7)
Mountain: +10 ft. at 9/17 (8+1)

 

[Kerrick]

I think that still might be too big for wind. and at the same time, it's something you'll need to beef up the other styles a bit to counter for the lack of, so you'd need to take the speed into account.

I'd move everyone down on your table. But I dont personally think any of them should get a bonus higher than 40 ft.

Yeah, I thought about it, and Wind Style being 90 ft. move at L20 is way too good - especially when you add in expeditious retreat, haste, or other things that boost speed (even running). 40 ft. max bonus sounds about right. Wind is already getting penalized (slightly) for the speed increase by a damage decrease, though I could up it. Mountain Style doesn't really need lots of speed, since they can soak up damage, and Sea can avoid it. Fire would have the second best speed boost, so I think they'll be good.

I was looking over this thing last night, and I'm starting to wonder if it's not a BIT overpowered...

 

[ardentmoth]

Oh, I know. I don't think monk/sorcerer is that bad... certainly not as bad as monk/cleric or monk/druid. Ever seen a monk/cleric with Zen archery? Scary. I'm still undecided on using Cha vs. Wis as the main stat, though... I mean, I can see Wisdom being about awareness of self and inner discipline and what not, but Charisma is also kind of evocative of their abilities - it's force of will. I could use them both - Wis for AC bonus and Cha to modify abilities - but the monk suffers from minor MAD syndrome already.

Charisma isn't "force of will." It is "force of personality." I doubt a monk, someone who is essentially a hermit that can fight, would be either loud or overly concerned with his popularity. Suggestion: maintain the wisdom requirement.

 

[Drowbane]

The only problem with switching from Wis to Cha is you now upen up easy Sorc/Monk multiclassing. Granted, I don't know what's worse, Cleric/Monk or Sorc/Monk...but it's still an issue to consider.

Cleric doesn't "need" monk... where as Sorc gets alot of millage out of even one level... assuming Cha to AC (battledancer)

 

[Sylrae]

i dunno

force of personality - force of will: closely related enough as far as im concerned. wisdom is supposedly a combination of experience and good instincts, theres no way thats force of will, but thats the default for will saves, as goofy as that seems. cha always made more sense for will saves to me, but thats just my opinion.

as for worrying about the AC getting too high, just don't let them stack, or come up with a system to allow them to stack in the way you want.

the houserule"no more than 2 ability scores can add to armor at the same time, and one of them hasto be dex" has always fixed that exploit in games ive played. then there are no uber monk duelists ect etc who add every fricking stat to their ac.