Revision Spotlight (6/17)

[jasamcarl]

Is that a serious question?

Because it makes no sense.

Because, in a combat situation, automatic sucess destroys any competition.

Because it is boring.

Because in D&D virtually nothing is automatic success.
A rogue with +20 Open Locks may be able to automatically open a normal lock. But he can not automatically open ANY lock.

Because it promotes bizzare behavior that evolves from 100% certainty.

Because the idea of deflecting an arrow in particular should be impressive, an accomplishment.

Because a 30th level fighter still has a 5% chance to miss a standard kobold.

Because a L30 Master Archer will be blocked by a L2 monk without so much as a die being thrown.

It doesn't 'destroy competition'. Through mid to high levels, it only deflect one out of multiple attacks per round. Its effect is not great enough to alter short term tactical considerations at all. And because you arbitrarly place value on how everything else in DND is resolved does that make this bad design. The rest is too subjective to even address. Please, a rational argument would be appreciated.

The damage a kobold can inflect on a fighter, regardless if he survives an extra round, is so small that there really is no balance arguemtn there. A master archer will be using multiple attacks. That is what makes him a master.

 

[Triumph]

I prefer for archery to be a tool that my players can use, while melee is the meat and potatoes of DnD for my group.

Agreed. Robin Hood and Legolas have no place in D&D.

 

[jasamcarl]

You edited your post while I was replying.

I already said that it won't make a big difference.

That does not save it from being bad design.

Heck, a Ref DC:2 would be better because at least a 5% failure would return. It would still be quite poor. But automatic is a bad precedent.

And really, if all you have to argue is a slipper-slope fallacy (precedent), then i think my point has been made. In this case, an absolute bonus works. The probability that an arrow could be deflected would have to be so high to make this feat viable that its worth it to make it absolute to save on an unneccessary die roll.

 

[Lilandros]

Does a shield of arrow deflection still provide it's wearer with this feat?

 

[mmu1]

Does a shield of arrow deflection still provide it's wearer with this feat?

Yes, but in 3.5 it only works if you're not holding it.

 

[Styracosaurus]

Legolas had archery as one of his many talents. If he jumped genre, over into Wuxia, he'd probably switch to his way-cool-elf-knife style.

Robin Hood, I don't like him. But he was also a great swordsman as well as an archer. Good at everything as I recall. Except acting, but hey, what can a hero do when he's played by Kevin Costner?

That said, I'll probably house rule Deflect Arrows to require a higher dexterity or Reflex save. Monk's get it without having to fit the requirement.
This way, you can deflect an arrow even if you are a sword-and-shield kinda guy.

Even a low requirement such as Reflex save of +3 or +4 would limit a fighter's access to a feat. If you put it off until 8th level, there'll be better choices anyway. Probably a decent dexterity requirement such as Dex 15+ would also fit.

 

[youspoonybard]

I've always found that making anything automatic is a recipe for unanticipated trouble.

I think a dodge feat that negates one hit per round would be a must-have feat. Take two equal fighters and give one a dodge feat and the other one any other feat, and I'll put my money on the uberdodge guy. After all, the one fighter may have more than one attack per round, but in all likelihood, if the character has reasonable AC for level, only the first 1 or 2 blows will hit due to the iterative attack bonuses dropping by five a pop. Give the guy a high AC, it plays really strongly in his favor.

Well, there is a feat like that. It's called epic dodge.

 

[Mort]

Well, there is a feat like that. It's called epic dodge.

Sure.

The requirements for Epic Dodge are: Dex 25, 30 ranks in tumble, improved evasion, defensive roll as a class feature, and dodge.

This means only an epic level rogue (monk would be unlikely unless really Epic level) could take this feat.

Now deflecting arrows is not nearly as powerful or versatile, but then again it can be taken at 1st level by any fighter or monk with 13+ dex.

That should say something.

 

[Kai Lord]

What a shame ol' Smaug didn't have Deflect Arrows.

Of course, in the future, IMC, he will...

Thank God you didn't write The Hobbit then. An ancient dragon who believes himself to be literally invulnerable to any kind of mortal attack is going to degrade himself by spending two feats to learn something he believes he will never, ever use because of METAGAME knowledge by the DM?

Oh well, I guess I just don't think its the job of the 3.5 rules to prevent you from telling a stupid story. I know that sounds harsh, but I'm noticing more and more criticisms against the revisions are because certain people are able to implement them stupidly into their campaigns.

Good for you guys. There's also nothing in the rules to prevent all your Fighters from wearing blue lipstick and surrendering to 2nd level Rogues.

Lord knows I can't go more than a session or two without 20 first level Monks attacking a militia of crossbowmen. Those common occurances used to be such nailbiting experiences. Now the Monks will kick their asses! Well, assuming they've all devoted almost all the energy in their young lives to learning how to deflect arrows.

And people really need to stop misusing the word verisimilitude. A 2nd level Paladin being immune (no saving throw, nothing) to the Fear spells from a 135th level Archwizard is kosher but a 2nd level Monk being immune to one attack (that he's aware of) from a high level super-archer breaks verisimilitude?!?!?!?

Cue Dr. Evil voice:

Riiiiiight.

 

[Knightfall]

And people really need to stop misusing the word verisimilitude. A 2nd level Paladin being immune (no saving throw, nothing) to the Fear spells from a 135th level Archwizard is kosher but a 2nd level Monk being immune to one attack (that he's aware of) from a high level super-archer breaks verisimilitude?!?!?!?

Cue Dr. Evil voice:

Riiiiiight.

Well said, Kai. Well said.

Regardless, I think I'll simply boost the Dex requirement to 15 and let it be.