D&D 3E/3.5 Reworking 3e armour; need help!

[Terath Ninir]

Yeah, the simplicity part will be hard.

Spatzimaus, you've given me some more ideas. This is turning out to be an even more interesting project than I thought.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I think part of the problem is how you've phrased the question. If you give any warrior the option of full plate or leather, 99% of the time he'll take the full plate. The real "balancing" factor is availability. If everyone is taking the same type of armour all the time, it's probably the most advantageous armour that is available to them. If you want to change that, then you need to change the availability.

Changing the statistics of armour seems a little a??-backwards, IMO. Why wouldn't someone take the best armour that is available? If you make lesser armours better, what are you really accomplishing? Sure you're increasing frequency, but you're also underming the armour system as a whole.

You'd be much better off making certain types of armour unavailable. Get rid of mithral (or multiply its cost by 10); make full plate dependent on finding an armourer that can craft it; make chain shirts viewed as the armour of the peasantry; etc., etc.

There usually is an optimal suit of armour for a particular set of circumstances. If you want to change that, then you need to change the circumstances - not the armour.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Aus_Snow]

. . .
A breastplate, for one, doesn't even cover the legs. Whilst leather armour *does*...
. . .

As in the *word* 'breastplate', true. But read the description of Breastplate Armour in the PHB and, more pertinently perhaps, check out the picture below it: legs are covered.

But aside from that, I have had similar problems with the whole "Why bother with anything except x-y-z armour; it gives the best bonus AND has the least drawbacks!" recurring issue. And yes, mithral items tend to creep into the 'favoured' selection area quite often.

I am looking forward to seeing how Conan's dodge/parry/DR/AP system (plus whatever else they've done to combat) might help me there, but I can't vouch for it as I haven't even read it yet.

The only other thing that springs to mind is the Arms & Armor sourcebook (which again, I don't have). There's a preview donwload available on the bastion press website, that displays some potential, I thought. And teh reviews seem ok too. Worth a look, maybe?

 

[Wolf72]

okay here's my table

wolf

Modified Armor

ARMOR		COST	AC	MxDX	CHK 	SPELL F.	SPEED 30/20	WGT	DR
[light]
Padded *         5gp	+1	+8	0	5%		full		10
Leather *	10gp	+2	+6	0	10%		full		15
Cord *		15gp	+2	+5	-1	5%		full		15
Bone * 		20gp	+3	+4	-3	15%		full		20
Ashigaru	25gp	+3	+5	-2	15%		full		20
Studded         25gp	+3	+5	-1	15%		full		20
Leather Scale *	35gp	+3	+6	-2	15%		full		20
Ring Mail  	50gp	+3	+3	-3	10%		full		20
Chain Shirt	100gp	+4	+4	-2	20%		full		25

[medium]
Hide *		65gp	+5	+4	-3	20%		20/15		25
Dhenuka *	80gp	+6	+1	-5	25%		20/15		25
Brigandine	80gp	+6	+2	-5	30%		20/15		40
Scale Mail	100gp	+6	+3	-4	25%		20/15		30
Partial Armor 	125gp	+6	+4	-3	25%		20/15		30
Chainmail	200gp	+7	+2	-5	30%		20/15		40
Lamellar	225gp	+7	+3	-5	30%		20/15		35
Breastplate	250gp	+7	+3	-4	25%		20/15		30

[heavy] 
Splint Mail	400gp	+8	+0	-7	40%		20/15		45	1
Banded Mail 	500gp	+8	+1	-6	35%		20/15		35	1
Improved Mail 	700gp	+8	+2	-6	40%		20/15		40	1
Half-plate	800gp	+9	+0	-7	40%		20/15		50	1
Great Armor	1,200gp	+9	+2	-5	40%		20/15		45	1
Field Plate 	1,700gp	+10	+1	-6	35%		20/15		50	1
Full Plate	1,850gp	+10	+1	-6	35%		20/15		50	2
High Plate	8,000gp	+12	+2	-4	20%		20/15		40	1

High/Melnibonean Plate is always MW and only available through Melnibonean craftsman. It can also be used to represent any Ancient/High form of armor (Valheru, Solamnic ...). This incredibly rare armor is made of several special materials, including, but not limited to, mithral and adamantine. It does not benefit from either of those special materials nor can it be made entirely from those materials. It must be fitted for each wearer individually. (stolen from Dragonlords of Melnibone)

* denotes natural armor

1. ring mail is my conversion
2. improved mail is by Drowdude
3. field and full plate are nearly identical except for DR

[option] Heavy Armor can only withstand so much before it needs to be repaired. It can take 25 hits before needing repair (craft DC 10 +base armor bonus, costs 10gp per hit up to 250gp). If allowed to go beyond this it will cost an add’t 100gp (350gp total), the armor will loose it’s DR rating, and the wearer will suffer a –2 circumstance/equipment penalty to AC ... until the armor is adequately fixed. (by TrentonJoe and Wolf72).

[edit: removed some Elric armors which were kinda lame]

 

[Terath Ninir]

Okay, here's a first draft of a revised armour table. The first section has armour "foundations". They can be worn by themselves as armour.

The next section has reinforced armour -- studs, rings, scales, or plates are sewn onto a foundation, or between two layers of foundation in the case of brigandine. This section deviates from the Core rules the most, since I was using the Palladium arms & armour book heavily for this. Ring mail consists of rings sewn onto a backing; bezainted has rings that are studded on the backing, making it a stronger armour. Scale is significantly better than the D&D version.

The third section is armour that has a seperate foundation. You wear, usually, padding or quilting, then put the metal armour on seperately. Reinforced chain has something -- like metal or leather strips -- woven through the chain links to try to eliminate some of the weaknesses of the chain. It also makes it even harder to move around in, though.

The next section is the one I've worked on the least: special materials and masterwork. I'm increasing the cost of masterwork in most cases, but also increasing the benefits. Well-made armour is MUCH better than "average" armour, not just a little bit. All the numbers here are still up in the air.

The last section gives the type of the armour. If, after adjustments, the full suit of armour has a "type value" from 0-2, it's light; from 3-4, medium; and 5+ is heavy.

Well -- any comments/critiques/death threats?

 

[Rhun]

Wow, nice job Cyberzombie! That looks great. Very close to what I've been working on, but much simpler. I hope you don't mind if I start using it!!!

 

[Terath Ninir]

Thanks! I don't mind at all. I *think* I have the numbers in the first three sections all correct. I had to correct every single one on the breastplate before I posted, though.

I've deliberately changed some numbers, particularly on Max Dex and armour penalty, as part of my campaign to make medium armours more attractive.

 

[Limper]

Not to shabby.

I would post you mine but I see little need.

 

[Arkhandus]

I'd suggest Dragonskin Leather to be the tougher, more flexible leather 'augmentation'. Likely made with the leathery hide of a younger dragon, or a wyvern or the like. The even tougher, thicker leather could be Elder Dragonskin Leather or something, or maybe Alchemically-Cured Leather. In the latter case, perhaps it's boiled in alchemical fluids that make it tougher but also bulked up and harder to work with, making a harder but less flexible armor of heavy leather.

 

[Rhun]

Thanks! I don't mind at all. I *think* I have the numbers in the first three sections all correct. I had to correct every single one on the breastplate before I posted, though.

I've deliberately changed some numbers, particularly on Max Dex and armour penalty, as part of my campaign to make medium armours more attractive.

Alright, two things I've thought of:

1) I think your full plate armor is a little too good...at least as far as max dex and armor penalty goes. There would be no reason to use many of the lesser armors. If I interpret your tables the right way, Full Plate with Quilted foundation would give an MDB of +3, and an ACP of -5...I'm not sure there would be a reason to ever wear platemail, or even chainmail, since the benefits are not as good, and the penalties are worse.

2) How is magic armor going to work? Can you have +5 full plate with a +5 leather foundation. Which takes precendence? Will they stack?