Rhemoraz CR7?

[SpikeyFreak]

Anytime you give a creature a favorable situation it raises the EL of the encounter.

It doesn't get +10d10 for attacking, only when you hit it while it is enraged and when you are swollowed.

A perfect ambush would raise the encounter at least 2 levels, so you should wait until the party is 9th level to pull that off.

If you don't allow surprise, but you still let the Rhemy burrow up into the middle of the party, it would raise the EL some too, probably just 1 level though. So that's an 8th level party.

If you think this guy is broken, look at the Bebilith.

102 hp
15' reach
Imp. grab
High AC (27)
Good saves (+14/+11/+11)
Immune to poison and electricity
fire acid and cold resist 20
A web spell that is 75% immune to fire
Poison (Con dmg 1d6/2d6 DC 20)
It will usually destroy armor on a succesful claw attack
Cleave and Power attack
DR 30(!!!!)/+3

So fireball, l-bolt, charm monster, suggestion, all that stuff will barely have a chance to hurt it. Harm would work (but then again, that will work against a great worm gold dragon). If you attack it in melee you better hope you get initiative (which is not too likely because its Init is +5) because it will get a AoO when you try to close (even if you have a reach weapon) which at +19 does 2d6+9 damage and is poisonous (and good luck with that +6 fort save). Plus it has a very high AC, so even a min/maxed fighter will only be likely to hit with his/her first attack. Then when the Beby gets it's full-round attack, you can kiss your armor good-bye. Not to mention it's going to grapple you (str 28 and huge) and ground you into demon-food. Oh, and if you don't have a +3 weapon (kinda iffy at 9th level) you have to do over 30 points of damage to hurt it.

All for the low cost of CR 9.

Yeah right.

--Demonic Spikey

 

[IceBear]

I guess I've been playing my surprise rounds wrong.

Situation:

Remorhaz buried under the ground lying in wait. Party walks towards the spot in which it is hidden. Now, it's underground and not moving so I don't think I would allow a Spot or Listen check (at least not without serious penalties). I would allow a Wilderness Lore check to allow someone to spot some sign that one might be nearby, but that's it. So, the odds are the remorhaz will detect the PCs before it can detect them.

Surprise Round: Remorhaz burrows up 10ft and attacks a PC as a charge.

What's wrong with that? This is no different than the PCs not noticing some orcs hiding in the bushes, and then the orcs wait until the PCs are within 20ft and charge them. I guess maybe it's not possible to use burrowing to charge, I dunno.

Anyway, I see a lot of DMs stating that they would give the party all kinds of rolls to nullify the surprise round. I always thought that once the surprise round started, that was it - you were either surprised or you weren't. I would give rolls to PCs BEFORE the surprise round, but like I said an insect that isn't moving and hidden under the ice won't exactly be easy to spot or hear.

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I agree IceBear.

But you have to realize that a surprise like this raises the EL of the encounter. A monster that eats people in one gulp landing in the middle of a surprised party is going to kill someone.

Saying that the CR is too low because it likes to surprise people is kinda silly.

Now the 10d10 damage against anything that touches it may increase the CR....

--Cool Spikey

 

[IceBear]

I agree IceBear.

But you have to realize that a surprise like this raises the EL of the encounter. A monster that eats people in one gulp landing in the middle of a surprised party is going to kill someone.

Saying that the CR is too low because it likes to surprise people is kinda silly.

Now the 10d10 damage against anything that touches it may increase the CR....

--Cool Spikey

Oh, I know an ambush raises the EL - I wasn't arguing that, and when I'm calaculating the EL for my adventures I look at the situation and raise or lower the EL accordingly.

It just seemed that a few posters were attacking a DM that allowed the remorhaz to gain surprise. That's why I was posting.

IceBear

 

[Henrix]

I guess maybe it's not possible to use burrowing to charge, I dunno.

You cannot Run with burrowing, but that must mean it's okay to charge.

I think your description of what would happen sounds perfectly good.
That is about how I would run it as well.

Possibly I would have the remorhaz lying a short stretch away, and not by pure chance directly below the PCs path. In that case I'd allow a very good listen check (DC 25 or so) for each PC to get a partial action as they hear something below them.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, but have you ever seen a preying mantis hunt. It is very patient and will wait for it's prey to come within perfect striking distance before attacking; I haven't seen one rush from a distance. I see the ice worm doing the same thing.

What I might do, is if it's prey didn't walk directly over it, and then it started moving away, I might have the ice worm chase after them. But, it would depend on how desperate it is. As a steathy hunter, it's instincts would tell it that it's best chance for success is to attack like I described above - to do otherwise is to invite a chance of injury or death.

Another thing, I don't normally have creatures like this continue the attack. If it pops up and swallows someone, it's got it's meal. Why continue to fight something that could hurt or kill it if it's no longer hungry? I usually just have them burrow back under the ice and snow to their lair and digest their meal in peace. Now, if the PCs continue to pursue, it would obviously attempt to drive them off.

IceBear

 

[Belares]

well Icebear you are saying that on the suprise round that it burrows up 10' then attacks 1 time, then goes to normal intiative, correct? I would then assume that it can burrow up to it's 20' then spring up out of the ground and attack without any chance to get a spot/listen check? Just because something is burrowing up through the ground doesnt mean instant surprise. I would think adventurers are more attuned to their surronding than most people. Take the example from my previous post they could notice horses getting skittish, or a familar that has great senses, or even the subtle shift of the ground around them. I am just saying give the Pc's a chance. I am not flaming you I am just making some points.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Its a rule mechanic.

The Rhemy decides to attack. The party can't see it, so it gets a surprise partial action, burrowing out of the ground. Then normal initiative starts, and it is right next to a party member, who (if they win initiative) either runs and preys that it misses its AoO (which would allow a grab attempt), or gets eaten the next round.

How would you do it differently?

--Hopeless Spikey

 

[IceBear]

See, this is where I'm getting confused. I would allow chances to detect the ice worm BEFORE the surprise round, but none afterwards. Yes, the worm is probably making noise during its movement, but it's too late now - it's the surprise round.

Situation #1: PCs are walking through the woods and fail to notice the elven archers hiding in the trees. The elven archers wait for the PCs to move into optimial position and fire their bows making loud twangs as they do (the Surprise round). Are you saying that you would then allow the PCs to make listen checks to avoid being surprised? If so you're being far more generous than the rules state. The PCs are already surprised - the first round of combat started the moment the elves attacked and too bad for them they were flat footed.

Situation #2: A rogue is hiding behing a barrel in a ally. The PC fails to spot him. As the PC walks past, the rogue stands up (he is obviously easier to see now) and attacks. Too bad for the PC, it's the surprise round and he can't retroactively reverse that by detecting the rogue during his attack.

Please understand, I'm not a bloodthirsty DM, and if I do feel that the PCs are in a dire situation I might allow an extra dice roll to help them out, but in the case of an ice worm I'm not just going to give them a benefit because if *I* put it in my game then *I* expect them to survive it (again, if something happened just before that encounter that would make it hard for the PCs I might allow some extra help).

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

The way you are doing it is right IceBear. You can't use spot or listen to negate surprise once the combat has started.

You do know that surprise only allows a partial action though, right?

--Blood Thirsty Spikey