D&D 4E Rich Baker on 4e Realms changes

[Midknightsun]

Honestly, if they clean up the clutter of the realms like they promise, I may even take a look. My group and most of the people I play with currently think the Realms are far too cluttered as it is. High level NPCs abound, and honestly, if there were only a few of them, I don't think it would be as much of an issue, but I seem to remember even in second edition where every city detailed had high level wizards in the 18th to OMG! range, making PCs of less power pretty lucky to get a job scrubbing Elminster's Outhouse (which is probably self-cleaning anyway). The problem just excellerated with 3rd edition. The density of the different cities was also a problem, as well as dealing with anyone who was a rabid realms fan who would utter "It didn't happen that way, read Novel XXX where so and so the uber magnificent was actually in <Blank> city at that time . . . . . *sigh*.

So yeah, I'm one of those people who may give the realms a second look of they deliver on cleaning up the extraneous crap. . . .along with emphasizing more of a separation between the novels and the setting.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If the D&D tag isn't drawing them in, an FR tag isn't going to help that much.

There are people who read the Forgotten Realms novels who are only vaguely aware that it has to do with D&D. Dragonlance, too.

And honestly, BG and that lot are old enough in CRPG terms that they aren't drawing in the 'new crowd' anyway.

There are HUGE crowds of CRPG players who fondly remember that series. It's still an ongoing draw.

And it was arguably (because computer games aren't reviewed in any sort of objective way other than advertising dollars) a pretty poor showing.

This is both untrue and irrelevant. FR, the brand, has a prominent place in the world of CRPGs. That NWN2 didn't fly off the shelves doesn't matter one whit.

If Diet Blackberry Ginger Wild Fruit Punch Dr. Pepper doesn't make a big splash, it doesn't mean that Dr. Pepper isn't a solid brand, it just means that product didn't do well.

 

[Nellisir]

In 25+ years of playing D&D, I've never owned an FR material nor have I played in the Realms beyond a short campaign. I say that mostly to note... I don't get all the concern over the Realms.

Well, other people do own FR material, and do play in the Realms, and they're probably just as puzzled about why you like whatever it is you like. Everyone's different. Enjoy it.

I've never campaigned in the Forgotten Realms, but I do have a large collection of FR material; I like reading different settings. I'm looking forward to the changes. I also like the new cover.

 

[Shroomy]

I guess I like the current incarnation of the Realms, but I don't really have a desire to play there even though I collected the supplements (to apply the non-FR specific material to other worlds) and bought the adventures. The reboot has me curious and I might consider paying more attention to the Realms if my personal concerns are addressed.

 

[Cadfan]

I think they're stuck in a catch 22.

Things that make good novels- characters who save the world.
Things that make good rpg settings- unfilled need for characters who save the world.

Things that make people buy FR novels- strong attachment to D&D.
Things that make people buy FR rpg products- affection for the novels.

 

[Uzzy]

Alright, this might be a long post.

It wouldn't have worked. I'm very interested in the new Realms. I wouldn't be in that one. The simple fact that Drizzt saved someone in a novel published 10 years ago is still important to the setting today is what is daunting to people like me.

Drizzt has never been important in my Realms. It's important if YOU choose it to be. You don't have to set your game in the Silver Marches, but if you do, there's a nice regional sourcebook that explains what you need to set your game there.

I LIKE stories about gods and upheavals and I have no problem with them being in the novels. I have loved all the FR novels I've read(which is a good 20 or so). I have problems with the fact that every corner of the world and every small NPC is detailed somewhere(either in one supplement or another or in novels). I don't like the idea of trying to run the PCs through an adventure set in (insert name of town here) and realizing that I'm an idiot because I didn't read novel 4 of series X so I didn't know that the mayor of the town is a 12th level wizard who regularly protects the town from danger. Which, of course, OBVIOUSLY I should know since that character also shows up in 3 other novels and his stats are in gaming supplement XYZ.

Which is something I agree with, in a round about way. I like the novels, but prefer them to be small scale and constructive, rather then large RSE's and destructive. Secondly, a good campaign setting book would give you an overview of the area, which would show you that the mayor of that town is a 12th level wizard who protects the town from danger. If you don't read the Campaign Setting Book, what are you doing running the setting? Now, that is an argument that can be made when they routinely change large chunks of the setting in novels, those big ones with upheavals. For instance a lot in Cormyr changed after the Cormyr trilogy, but other then the FRCS, we've not had a lot about the new situation there.

It's why I wanted WOTC to release a document every year showing what changes have been made in the setting, or at least put something I think it's important that in a setting with a Metaplot, this happens, in order to keep people up to date with changes in the setting easily, if they so desire.

I have a problem with the fact that despite the fact that I've read about 20 FR novels and played in a 2 FR games that lasted about a year each that I can still sit down with the average FR fan and be told hundreds of things I had no idea about.

You don't like learning new things about a setting? That's one of the things that attracted me to it. Layer upon layer of history gives the appearance of a living, breathing world. Now, if the stuff you learnt happened to be vitally important things to the running of the setting, then I'd agree. But again, the FRCS should tell you those vitally important things.

Well, as Rich Baker says up there, if 'rabid' FR fans are pushing the setting so much by word of mouth, they aren't seeing the numbers from it. Plus, as said above by someone else, I've seen 'rabid' FR fans scare off new people who asked about the setting just as much if not more often than they helped promote the setting.

The people I asked for help when I started in the Realms were nothing if not friendly. Perhaps the others have had a bad experience, but that's not the fault of the setting.

I'm not sure creating new lore for a setting is good. It just adds to the "weight" of the setting and the barrier to entrance. Ideally for me, a setting would have the minimum lore required to be interesting and invoke people's imaginations but not enough that it takes more more than a day or 2 to read through it and understand how the setting works.

Then just stick to the Campaign Setting Book. You can make the same argument against the Eberron Sourcebooks, if you want. Reading the FRCS gives you a good amount of lore so that you can know the setting and be able to run it, and certainly doesn't take more then a few days to read through it.

WOTC could have addressed some of the issues with the Realms, both real and perceived, with soft changes, rather then pressing the reset button on the Realms. It makes me sad, but hey, it means I can save some money come August!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And this is exactly what Rich was talking about: Long-time FR fans badgering people about why they're wrong about being intimidated by the Realms sways ... who?

In real life, I don't get car salesmen getting in my face about why I should buy a car from them. It's all about the sell job, and right now, the FR fanbase tends to come off more like a doctor trying to jab me with a big scary needle, rather than someone making me want something.

 

[Traycor]

...but if you're really gunning for the new gamer audience, you might as well break out a whole new setting.

Many "new gamers" are introduced to the realms via the Drizzt novels and other such books. These folks know of the realms, but have never played it. FR is Wizards' best known property outside the PnP community. It is in their best interest to push it.

These new gamers have also been exposed to it through video games. Baldur's Gate (& expansion), Baldure's Gate II (& expansion - considered by many to be the best RPG of all time), Neverwinter Nights (& the billion expansions, plus a huge online community), NWN2, Icewind Dale (& expansion), IWD2, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II.

If Wizards of the Coast was smart, they would put ON THE COVER of the new FR setting book that it is the world of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.

 

[Uzzy]

Long-time FR fans badgering people about why they're wrong about being intimidated by the Realms sways ... who?

Been a fan for three years, so certainly not a long time fan.

I certainly didn't intend to come across as badgering, so if I have done, it wasn't intentional. I'm just saying that some of the assumptions Majoru Oakheart have are wrong. I am allowed to do that, right?

 

[StarFyre]

I can't believe I am saying this....but....

I like this change....

I thought I would be one of the 'haters' here about it, but I think it is a good idea. A shake up, sounds so far, if the rumours are right, that the realms will be very interesting.

Also, it appears one of my favourite locations in the realm's still exists (with the elves taking it over again), Myth Drannor....and the 'stuff' I like in the realms, are quite small and unique, so I can always modify events a bit in my universe, to make them as I wish.

Anauroch, Netheril (for time travel and my modifications to how magic works in the D&D universe), Myth Drannor and the other "myth" cities, the Shades, the airships of the south, evermeet, and some of the lost ruins, and IMHO the most interesting character, Larlock.

Since I'll have the freedom to add the stuff above back in if needed (ie. the rulebook won't say, the system is designed so that you can't add your own content)....I think I'm pleased that there is a lot of change.

Sanjay