D&D 4E Rich Baker on 4e Realms changes

[Traycor]

I really wish I could say the changes excite me, but I can't. I find most (not all) of the changes to be very contrived and poorly implemented with an overall feeling of being forced. *snip*

Emphasis mine.

I find this to be a curious statement. We have no idea how the changes have been implimented because we've not seen the setting yet... In fact, I'll go one step further. The book is still being written, so the implimentation hasn't even been done.

 

[Khairn]

It is daunting because so much material has accumulated in novels and is detailed nowhere else. It can be frustrating to design something and then to find that everything you've worked on is invalidated by canon. I believe that there is such a thing as too much information. I am very conversant with the realms, so this has never been an issue with me. But there are others I've gamed with who have felt an information overload.

If the problem you (or others) are experiencing is caused by the interpretation of canon, that won't change with the New-FR. As a GM you either accept canon for your game or you don't. If the problem you are experiencing is because there is too much information for your players to handle ... then work in a smaller scale. "Information overload" can be a real problem, but its a problem that is controlled by the players and GM, and not caused by the setting itself.

I also agree that the firestorm will die down. Some FR fans may refuse to have anything to do with the new FR, but some (even among those now complaining) will convert.

Agreed. What will be interesting is the impact (if any) that those players not willing to adopt the New-FR will have on new players. I've offered to start a new campaign at the FLGS in the spring, and the preffered setting identified by the players is FR. When I asked which FR setting, "Classic or New" I was told "Classic". The New-FR may take longer to adopt by players than WotC was planning on. Time will tell.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I sounds overly fanboyish on WOTC's forum, but I am in reality cautious if open - I will read, check... I may change of setting like toward Dragonlance's Summer dragons event, but I will probably convert later.

I don't like every changes, but somes are also cool. It seems generaly more leaning good for me.

 

[Khairn]

I find this to be a curious statement. We have no idea how the changes have been implimented because we've not seen the setting yet... In fact, I'll go one step further. The book is still being written, so the implimentation hasn't even been done.

Very true. That was a poor choice of words on my part as clearly nothing has been published to date except a small section at the end of the History of the Realms book. Any opinions given here and on other boards, can only be based on subjectively extrapolating idea's from the limited information that has been shared.

But I still feel that what has been shared is so dramatic that many FR fans (myself included ... obviously) don't see how it can work and still maintain the style, flavor and enjoyment that we've experienced over the years. And as long as WotC is saying they are interested in hearing the opinions from their customers on what they have released, we'll continue to share.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm delighted at the changes.

Put me in the camp of "ambivalent about the realms." There seem to be some real winning ideas burried in there, beneath an avalanche of level 13-25 stereotypes that get it on with deities and god-wars and whatnot. It seems like the Spellplague is hitting at least SOME of that in the junk.

It's not quite as sweeping or dramatic or amusing as "you wake up tomorrow and every piece of magic everywhere in the world makes you go insane. Also, the moon is blood-red, the stars are falling down around you, and there's some giant mind flayer apparently taking bites out of Waterdeep." But, then, the Realms have always been OUR OWN...

One of the major reasons I did that was to give a big raspberry to those high-level NPC's and the uber-magic protecting them from everything except Kryptonite on Wednesdays if they hadn't slept. And it felt good. And it gave me a lot of ownership about the realms.

I was always confident that whenever one of my players asked "What about NPC X?" I could easily answer: "You don't know. And if you want to find out, I, as a DM, must warn you: the knowledge could drive you mad."

 

[Cadfan]

This isn't that hard to understand.

People who use published settings often like, in fact insist, that the campaigns they create in those settings abide by canon. If they didn't like canon, they'd probably just homebrew.

If there's too much canon, they can't memorize it all.

Which means the games they write don't match canon, which means the games they write don't achieve the goal that was the whole point of the venture.

Plus, often their players catch the gaps between their games and canon, and that's no fun.

So the easiest solution is less canon.

 

[Banshee16]

Well, as Rich Baker says up there, if 'rabid' FR fans are pushing the setting so much by word of mouth, they aren't seeing the numbers from it. Plus, as said above by someone else, I've seen 'rabid' FR fans scare off new people who asked about the setting just as much if not more often than they helped promote the setting.

Well, for all they know, the rabid fans who are spreading the setting by word of mouth are the majority of the source behind any business for the setting at all. Maybe their marketing of the setting is actually dysfunctional, and if it wasn't for the rabid fans, the setting would be dead...period.

Banshee

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, for all they know, the rabid fans who are spreading the setting by word of mouth are the majority of the source behind any business for the setting at all. Maybe their marketing of the setting is actually dysfunctional, and if it wasn't for the rabid fans, the setting would be dead...period.

Well, since they do things like market research, I think they know more about what drives sales than we do. The amount of market research leading up to 3rd Edition was staggering, and the results were a new edition that revitalized D&D (which was basically in a coma), driving sales above where they were at the "peak" in the early 1980s.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Agreed. What will be interesting is the impact (if any) that those players not willing to adopt the New-FR will have on new players. I've offered to start a new campaign at the FLGS in the spring, and the preffered setting identified by the players is FR. When I asked which FR setting, "Classic or New" I was told "Classic". The New-FR may take longer to adopt by players than WotC was planning on. Time will tell.

On top of that problem where the FRCS isn't coming out until August making it impossible to run it in the spring. Heck, 4e doesn't come out until the summer.

 

[MerricB]

If I may make a few notes...

I was an almost original Realms fan, dating to the day the original AD&D Boxed Set came out. (Original Realms Fans were fans from before the boxed set, when Ed was just writing articles in Dragon Magazine).

As we moved into the 90s, I drifted away from the Realms, primarily because they decided to run three "real world" scenarios on top of each other: Horde, Maztica and Marco Volo. I wanted a fantasy world, not a (bad) simulation of real-earth lore, so I abandoned the Realms.

I bought the FRCS when it came out in 2001... and then recoiled at the level of detail it had. It really wasn't a good product for introducing me back to the Realms. In fact, it was awful. A really great resource for established DMs? Probably. Newcomers? No.

The "Grey Box" set was fantastic because it concentrated on the areas of Waterdeep, Cormyr and the Dalelands - the places of Ed's campaigns. It gave an overview of the world, but concentrated the detail. As a result, it was a great introductory set.

The FRCS? Not so much.

I rather hope the 4e FRCS books will be more similar to the Grey Box than the 3e FRCS. Later, I bought the 1e books that expanded the other areas of the Realms, but they were less scary then.

Cheers!