Ride by fly by?

[Ovinomancer]

A question in another thread got me thinking... can you use the ride by attack feat on a flying mount? Sure, when its on the ground, but what about flying?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I don't see why not.

 

[robberbaron]

I think I would specify needing the feats of Mounted Combat - Aerial and Ride by Attack - Aerial (requiring ranks in Ride - Aerial first), but there is nothing in the rules to stop you just doing it.

 

[Shallown]

Ride by Attack states you use a charge action.

A charge action is a full round action and requires the Mount to participate as a mount.

Fly by attack is a standard action taken during a normal move and denies an additional movement action.

These things potentially conflict. Ride by is very restricted by the Charge action. The Ride requires a full round action to be available but a fly by doesn't allow a full round action only two parts of a normal round that are clearly defined.

This is not to say that I wouldn't allow it but it is a counter arguement.

Later

 

[pyk]

I think I would specify needing the feats of Mounted Combat - Aerial and Ride by Attack - Aerial (requiring ranks in Ride - Aerial first), but there is nothing in the rules to stop you just doing it.

RIDE (DEX)

If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a ?5 penalty on your Ride checks.

Check: Typical riding actions don?t require checks. You can saddle, mount, ride, and dismount from a mount without a problem.

MOUNTED COMBAT [GENERAL]

Prerequisite: Ride 1 rank.

Benefit: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent?s attack roll. (Essentially, the Ride check result becomes the mount?s Armor Class if it?s higher than the mount?s regular AC.)

RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.

Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can?t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

Nothing in these sections indicate that ride, mounted combat, or ride-by-attack must be used with land animals only. Based on the descriptions (mount) I must conclude that it is entirely feasable for this to be accomplished on an aerial mount, with applicably higher DCs, and far more danger for failing, especially "Stay in Saddle" - ouch.

In fact, my 3.0 PHB even defines Ride as being applicable to flying critters (griffons, for example) and points out that the skill is considered to be 5 ranks lower for "very different" mount types, such as griffons.

 

[Artoomis]

Ride by Attack states you use a charge action.

A charge action is a full round action and requires the Mount to participate as a mount.

Fly by attack is a standard action taken during a normal move and denies an additional movement action.

These things potentially conflict. Ride by is very restricted by the Charge action. The Ride requires a full round action to be available but a fly by doesn't allow a full round action only two parts of a normal round that are clearly defined.

This is not to say that I wouldn't allow it but it is a counter arguement.

Later

Fly By Attack and Ride By Attack are two totally different actions.

Ride By Attack lets you charge and go by your opponent (if you modiify the charge rules slightly to let that happen) AND not draw an AoO for doing so. Nothing prevnet you from doing this while flying on a mount.

Fly By Attack allow YOU (not your mount) to split your standard actions into a partiual move-action-partial move sequence.

Two different actions entirely.

 

[Shallown]

So Artoomis Technically your mount could tumble if it wished (Say to avoid other nearby creatures attacks) and you can still ride by attack?

I think the problem comes mostly from the ride-by-attack not saying what the mount can do. It simply says what the rider can do and that they can use the mounts speed (up to double).

True ride by doesn't state the mount has to be ground bound. Hadn't thought of that but I don't think it matters much for this discussion. This is more about the interaction of two feats than about if the mount flies or not. The same discussion could occur if the mount had Spring attack instead.

Ride by attack has many restrictions due to the Charge action required to perform it. That is why it so easy to get compared to spring attack.

Fly by has the small restriction of being a single movement action and an attack somewhere in the middle and not the ends as is normal.

I think it boils down to does Ride-by require the mount to have its full movement avalaible, even if it doesn't use it, to be performed. Or at least that is the question in my mind.


They are two different actions but are they two conflicting actions?

Just playing devil's advocate. I already now how I rule it in my game which Ovinomancer is in but I am more than willing to be argued out of my position.

Later

 

[Liquidsabre]

Don't forget that a charge still has to be in a straight line, I'd hate to see that pretty flying mount run themselves into the ground. No dive and pull ups either on a charge (that would be why fly-by is geenrally better for fliers, you can do that with the feat). Best would be to fly near ground level and then fly strait for the charge (perhaps 5-10ft off ground).

 

[Shallown]

Tru Dat Liquid.

But it does save having to worry about broken ground and such. Just have to worry about that straight in and out line. Not as easy as one would think.

later

 

[Artoomis]

...
They are two different actions but are they two conflicting actions?...

They cannot be used together - it doesn't even make sense to even disucss it - they are DIFFERENT. It's like asking if can you charge and cast a spell at the same time? Answer - of course not. When you charge you make a single attack, not take a standard action.