Rifts vs D&D

[GMforPowergamers]

Rifts was my first paper and dice roleplaying &it will always hold a special place in my heart...

I do want to play in that setting using more balanced rules

I agree an md knife makes no sense....but handheld lasers with small md makes sense....

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Just don't put it anywhere on the 'net or Siembieda will Cease and Desist you post haste.

VICTORY!

If I only referenced his fluf and did not reproduce it I don't think I would have to worry....

Heck I am already converting a cyber knight to a 4e defender class in my mind (mix battlemind and Paladen)

 

[Stormonu]

Rifts is chock-full of great ideas, but I could do without KS's tone. And the mechanics could use a good scrubbing.

I have found a series of PDFs on the 'net that translate the Palladium system to D20 (and are very thorough), but I haven't dared to try them out yet.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I have found a series of PDFs on the 'net that translate the Palladium system to D20 (and are very thorough), but I haven't dared to try them out yet.

where did you find those? Again I have been looking for something like that for years. Me and my group even joked it wwas half done, since rifts uses the d20 for attacks and saves already.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

The worst part about RIFTs is that, even if you use just a core-rules game, with none of the expansions, you will have a party where at least one player feels useless and at least one player just dominates. I've been in games where the Rogue Teacher (me) sat around and did next to nothing while the glitter boy destroyed everything in sight, and the wilderness scout made some rolls to get us to the next fight, and then repeat. And when we got to a city so I could be all Rogue Teacher-y.... the other two players complained that they had nothing to do, and the encounter got waved by - because, at least in those combats, I could shoot my pistol for 1d6 MDC or whatever.

That's a bad GM, not a bad system.

Although RIFTS *is* a pretty horrible system.

But the idea of an "unbalanced" party is not a problem if you have a GM skilled enough (and thoughtful enough) to make it work by deliberately crafting challenges that will demand more of the party than simply "Vaporize!"

 

[Stormonu]

where did you find those? Again I have been looking for something like that for years. Me and my group even joked it wwas half done, since rifts uses the d20 for attacks and saves already.

Search for "Rifts d20 conversion" and you should find it. I removed a direct link because the one I just located has copyrighted pics in it (the original ones I found just had text and conversion info).

 

[Evilhalfling]

I agree an md knife makes no sense....but handheld lasers with small md makes sense....

I got as far as character creation with RIFTS.

my 1st characters knife was made from wood from the World Tree - it did 1d4 mega damage
So my wooden knife could destroy a modern tank (not super-science tanks though) See it made perfect....
okay we gave up and played MtG instead.

still a d20 conversion would be fun, with a some updates..

 

[Wik]

That's a bad GM, not a bad system.

Although RIFTS *is* a pretty horrible system.

But the idea of an "unbalanced" party is not a problem if you have a GM skilled enough (and thoughtful enough) to make it work by deliberately crafting challenges that will demand more of the party than simply "Vaporize!"

I fully agree that it was a bad GM. The problem is, RIFTS' rules tend to reinforce that sort of GMing behaviour. You create a game where players take on a role that they find interesting (the Vagabond, the Rogue Scientist, or Dog Pack!), and then they play in a game where they are outmatched in most scenes. Any time they get a chance to shine, though, is generally going to be limited, due to the way the group dynamics work.

I've heard that RIFTS is a great system with a great GM. But I don't think a game should require a good GM to be playable; that doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

For what it's worth, I've played with that same GM before, and we never had a problem in other systems.

 

[Stoat]

I fully agree that it was a bad GM. The problem is, RIFTS' rules tend to reinforce that sort of GMing behaviour. You create a game where players take on a role that they find interesting (the Vagabond, the Rogue Scientist, or Dog Pack!), and then they play in a game where they are outmatched in most scenes. Any time they get a chance to shine, though, is generally going to be limited, due to the way the group dynamics work.

I've heard that RIFTS is a great system with a great GM. But I don't think a game should require a good GM to be playable; that doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

For what it's worth, I've played with that same GM before, and we never had a problem in other systems.

On this same theme, the RIFTS books that I remember focused pretty heavily on combat. Monster and NPC's or course got full combat stats. Most of the available equipment was combat-related. Most vehicles were combat-ready. Lots and lots and lots of the creatures in the books are utterly inimical to human life and will more or less attack on sight. It's pretty easy for GM to see the game as basically a combat game.

And then there are a bunch of OCC's that look like combat classes (Dog Boys, Dead Boys, Headhunters, etc.) but they're going to get their clocks cleaned when the bullets start flying.

 

[SSquirrel]

I've heard that RIFTS is a great system with a great GM. But I don't think a game should require a good GM to be playable; that doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

For what it's worth, I've played with that same GM before, and we never had a problem in other systems.

I disagree Wik, all games require a good DM. If they don't, you're probably playing a board game. That doesn't mean that all systems need a good DM to make a balanced group. RIFTS has a super wide gulf between the high and low that you can experience in character creation. I've played RIFTS with crappy GMs and it sucked. I've played D&D with crappy DMs and it sucked. Making an unbalanced party will lead to unhappy players 9 times out of 10. The DM should let people know in advance what to expect. If he tells you to expect a lot of action and combats while dimension hopping and you choose to make a Rogue Scientist, that's your own fault.

When I ran RIFTS I limited people to specific books and ruled out certain RCC and OCCs from each book. That helped establish a more level field and ensured that people would be useful on a more regular basis. Some systems are more inherently balanced than others. 4E vs RIFTS is no contest there. Call of Cthulhu you can certainly make someone who is much better at combat, but you'll still probably die to shoggoths anyway

The ideas and the artwork of RIFTS have always been the big draw of the setting for me. The blind slave warrior women w/a splugorth on the cover of the main book when it was first released. The ley line walker. The red borg. The art took you places and reading about the world was awesome. I grew up about an hour from Chillicothe OH, so it was really cool to learn it was the center of the Federation of Magic or that there was the City of Brass in Mammoth Cave. The Deep South is now a big swampy dinosaur infested area. Central America is infested with vampires and they have taken the "can't cross moving water" myth and turned it into techno wizard water guns holding them back. heh

Some of the stuff you find in the setting is just plain ridiculous, but so much of it is really cool. Now, it's known that Kevin does no playtesting, so there's no way anything is balanced. As long as you know that and plan around it, it can be a great game.