Ring of Counterspelling: Targeted Only?

HeapThaumaturgist

First Post
Does Ring of Counterspelling counterspell, say, Fireball when cast with you within the radius or is it only useful when loaded with Targeted type spells?

The ring description says: "As the counterspell action" which can counter any type of spell but the text also says: "should that spell ever be cast upon the wearer" ... just too-fancy wording or is it supposed to be a condensed version of the little preamble you find in Spell Turning, which spells out that targeted effects are the only types of spells that can be turned and that AoE spells are specifically ruled out.

Is there a FAQ entry on this?

--fje
 

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The party wizard in my current campaign got one of these, and assumed it was a minor ring of spell storing. What did he put in it? Color Spray! So I had the same question in my head for quite some time, and the answer I came up with is: yes, targeted only. Just being in the area of a spells affect does not mean you were "targeted".
 

My problem is the word "target" never appears anywhere in the ring description. Just says: "upon the wearer".

If I drop an elephant on you and your friend Phil, you both have had an elephant dropped upon you ... I did not, however, target you with an elephant.

--fje
 

Counterspells

This ring might seem to be a ring of spell storing upon first examination. However, while it allows a single spell of 1st through 6th level to be cast into it, that spell cannot be cast out of the ring again. Instead, should that spell ever be cast upon the wearer, the spell is immediately countered, as a counterspell action, requiring no action (or even knowledge) on the wearer’s part. Once so used, the spell cast within the ring is gone. A new spell (or the same one as before) may be placed in it again.

Moderate evocation; CL 11th; Forge Ring, imbue with spell ability; Price 4,000 gp.


Aiming A Spell

You must make some choice about whom the spell is to affect or where the effect is to originate, depending on the type of spell. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell’s target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.

Target or Targets

Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

Area

Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.

Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.

Burst, Emanation, or Spread

Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.

An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.

A spread spell spreads out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.
Cone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere

Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape, such as a cone, cylinder, line, or sphere.

A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won’t go around corners.

When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell’s point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.

A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares that the line passes through.

A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.

Creatures

A spell with this kind of area affects creatures directly (like a targeted spell), but it affects all creatures in an area of some kind rather than individual creatures you select. The area might be a spherical burst, a cone-shaped burst, or some other shape.

Many spells affect "living creatures," which means all creatures other than constructs and undead. Creatures in the spell’s area that are not of the appropriate type do not count against the creatures affected.

Although I underlined a section under burst, that is to emphasize that creatures caught within are "affected by" the spell. They are not, however, the target. The target is an intersection.
 

Dracorat said:
Although I underlined a section under burst, that is to emphasize that creatures caught within are "affected by" the spell. They are not, however, the target. The target is an intersection.

Yes - the creatures in the burst are not the target of the Fireball.

The question HT's asking, however, is not "Was Fireball cast with me as the target?" He's asking "Was Fireball cast upon me?"

-Hyp.
 


I allow it. A Ring of Counterspelling is eating up a ring slot, and you have to defend against a very specific spell for a one-time protection. If you define it as narrowly as spell turning, you couldn't even Ring of Counterspelling, for instance, a Polar Ray or Scorching Ray (both have an Effect instead of a listed target).

Besides which, Ring of Counterspelling is generally only ever used (in my campaign) to defend against Disjunction, which is an unfair spell with pretty much no other defense against it. Ruling narrowly takes that away. Really, if the PCs are willing to use an item slot to make a gamble on a specific spell they want to stop the first time they see it, I'm not going to restrict them to a small subset of attack spells you would see by the time you get the ring.
 

Hrm, nothing in the FAQ. It would be nice if they were a little more clear. Spell Turning takes pretty good care, as have any other "targeted only" type things, to at least use the word "target" in the description.

Last night we just used the ol' binary die to decide.

--fje
 

Hypersmurf said:
Yes - the creatures in the burst are not the target of the Fireball.

The question HT's asking, however, is not "Was Fireball cast with me as the target?" He's asking "Was Fireball cast upon me?"

-Hyp.

I think it depends on the intention of the caster. Certainly he wasn't targetted (he can't be). But the wearer of the ring was in the area of the effect. But I mainly see it as the intention of the caster of the spell (in this case fireball).

If an enemy cast fireball with him in the area with the intention of trying to harm him, then I would say "Yes, the counter spell triggers".

If an ally cast fireball with him in the area but did not intend from him to be harmed by it (such as casting a fireball on a Rogue with Evasion, hoping the Rogue would in fact evade), then I would say "No, the counter spell does not trigger".

If an enemy OR ally cast fireball with him in the area without the intention of trying to harm him (maybe they misjudged where he was and he happened to be in the area effect OR they didn't know he was there because he was invisible), then I would say "No, the counter spell does not trigger."

If the ring wearer were to go up to the caster of the spell and ask, "Did you purposely try to cast that spell upon me"? and the honest answer is "Yes" then the ring triggers. If the honest answer would be "No", then I don't think it would trigger.

JMHO of how I interpret the wording...

Now the way I would play it if I was DM, I would let the player decide if he wanted the counter spell to trigger or not. I'd leave it up to them (the players need as much help as they can get anyway).
 


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