Spoilers Rings of Power is back!

[Paul Farquhar]

A character with sympathetic human behaviours and motivation, who does not act solely in their own interest, is definitionally grey

I don’t know about anyone else, but your definition of “morally grey” is completely different to mine.

Sauron’s remorse at the death of Celebrimbor - projected through the fourth wall, and not immediately toward the orcs as a means of manipulation - humanizes him, and certainly “greys” him

He knows it’s wrong, he knows he is also hurting himself, but he does it anyway. That’s far more meaningfully evil than “buahahah I do this because god made me evil”. It’s the opposite of “grey”.

Wrt. Sauron’s “love” of Galadriel; well, it might have been more in-character if “he conceived a dark desire” a la Morgoth with Luthien. What we get is an infantilized version of romantic love.

As Celebrimbor points out, this is an example of Sauron deceiving himself. In this case that he can care about someone other than himself.

 

[Parmandur]

I don’t know about anyone else, but your definition of “morally grey” is completely different to mine.

He knows it’s wrong, he knows he is also hurting himself, but he does it anyway. That’s far more meaningfully evil than “buahahah I do this because god made me evil”. It’s the opposite of “grey”.

As Celebrimbor points out, this is an example of Sauron deceiving himself. In this case that he can care about someone other than himself.

I am rather flummoxed at the "morally grey" charge, since the show clearly has good guys (albeit flawed) and bad guys (albeit sympathetic). And, hey, look over there, the writing la of Tolkien, with flawed good guys and sympathetic bad guys. Tolkien's Orcs talk like British troops in the trenches, for goodness sake, not outside of Tolkien's ambit of sympathy.

 

[Stalker0]

I’ve never once “sympathized” with Sauron in the show, never once went “hmm maybe Sauron is right”.

But I am entertained by the way his evil is showcased. He can appear so near human (or elven), but there is always that dark twist. its the evil that even he cannot Escape.

 

[Maxperson]

A character with sympathetic human behaviours and motivation, who does not act solely in their own interest, is definitionally grey. The shades may differ.

Sauron’s remorse at the death of Celebrimbor - projected through the fourth wall, and not immediately toward the orcs as a means of manipulation - humanizes him, and certainly “greys” him.

Wrt. Sauron’s “love” of Galadriel; well, it might have been more in-character if “he conceived a dark desire” a la Morgoth with Luthien. What we get is an infantilized version of romantic love.

What we get is a desire to possess. That sort of desire is not any version of love.

I also don't think that humanizing equates to morally grey. We have had many clearly evil humans throughout history. Sauron blamed Celebrimbor for his torture and murder, as Sauron was committing those acts. That's not grey.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

What we get is a desire to possess. That sort of desire is not any version of love.

This invites a very Greek tragedy response, but … I’ll resist.

I was hoping for something a bit darker - Celebrimbor’s flayed body on a pike used as a standard; Entwives and Entings perishing in their burning gardens; altars running black with blood in Armenelos. There’s still time!

Maybe not that bad, but the Second Age was dark.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I was hoping for something a bit darker - Celebrimbor’s flayed body on a pike used as a standard; Entwives and Entings perishing in their burning gardens; altars running black with blood in Armenelos. There’s still time!

Maybe not that bad, but the Second Age was dark

It’s not going to go there because it’s not an 18 certificate!

 

[Baron Opal II]

It's only barely noticeable for folks who don't know Middle Earth. For anyone who had read the Silmarillion and other stories, it's glaring.

However, the showrunners and writers aren't allowed to use the Silmarillion. In fact, I seem to remember that the story must be different.

So, the istari wandering in the wastes isn't one of the Blue wizards because they're only mentioned in the Silmarillion. Now, Saruman does mention "the Five Wizards", so we know there are more than the three we meet in the LotR. I would hope that this wizard is one of the unmentioned two.

(And, yes, this comment probably isn't relevant anymore as I just realized I'm about 6 weeks behind in the thread.)

 

[Maxperson]

It’s not going to go there because it’s not an 18 certificate!

I'm not sure what that is. Is like a Rated R rating here?

 

[Micah Sweet]

However, the showrunners and writers aren't allowed to use the Silmarillion. In fact, I seem to remember that the story must be different.

So, the istari wandering in the wastes isn't one of the Blue wizards because they're only mentioned in the Silmarillion. Now, Saruman does mention "the Five Wizards", so we know there are more than the three we meet in the LotR. I would hope that this wizard is one of the unmentioned two.

(And, yes, this comment probably isn't relevant anymore as I just realized I'm about 6 weeks behind in the thread.)

The showrunners were able to use the Appendices, however (in fact that is mostly all they used), and there are plenty of issues there as well.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

However, the showrunners and writers aren't allowed to use the Silmarillion. In fact, I seem to remember that the story must be different.

So, the istari wandering in the wastes isn't one of the Blue wizards because they're only mentioned in the Silmarillion. Now, Saruman does mention "the Five Wizards", so we know there are more than the three we meet in the LotR. I would hope that this wizard is one of the unmentioned two.

(And, yes, this comment probably isn't relevant anymore as I just realized I'm about 6 weeks behind in the thread.)

I believe the showrunners can use any material from either The Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings - including the appendices. There seem to be one or two exceptions. - for example, they cannot explicitly use the term “Hobbit.“

The available material includes repurposed dialogue. There’s a fair bit.

If I understand correctly, RoP can also license individual elements from other Tolkien works as needed, if agreed with the Tolkien Estate. As well as from the Jackson movies (the balrog seems to have been licensed from Warner Brothers)