D&D 5E ritual casting overpowered?

[shoak1]

I see no problem (or no greater problem than anything else) with rituals. Sure, the feat used to get this offers increased power. What about the feat allowing the fighter to add +10 damage PER HIT!? Oh, and he swings 2/rd for +20 damage. The healer that can use 1 action to heal d6+4+lv hp for each party member without using any spell slots... and do it again after a short rest! This is about as good as level 1 cure wounds for no spell slot use. Oh, how about this one... Lucky - now that's just straight cheating...

Consider the dex fighter or rogue who adds +2 Dex. They got the benefit of a magic +1 weapon! They now have +1 to hit and +1 to damage with their attacks. Plus, depending on armor worn, maybe a +1 AC too. Bottom line is, feats are supposed to be powerful.

If the DM is using the tactics against the party then just find ways to work around them. A cleric can ritual detect magic and then silence the magic mouths with another ritual and use no spell slots. there are a number of ways to work around or with the additional challenge. But as a player, why worry about water walking as a problem. Just don't do it. It sounds like you are speaking from the position of DM. If you are the DM then shame on you. I have been a DM for 37+ years and 5e is all about DM control so take control. Remove the feat (or all of the OPTIONAL feats - as everything in Chapter 6 is DM option). Remove the Ritual tag from all spells. Increase casting time of rituals to an hour as they were in other editions. Do what you feel with YOUR game and make it fun for you and the players. In this case, there is no reason for this thread at all. Options are... Optional.

lol...Why is it that no matter what the thread, there are a dozen guys that have to offer the same advice - "If you don't like it, change it!" Well, yes, I know I can do so. But before I do, soliciting input from the community helps me a) decide if I am overreacting, b) provide ideas for how to house rule it.

Then there are the dozen posters who say "Everything else isn't balanced either, so why worry? Just have fun". And the dozen who say "xxx is optional so of course its unbalanced!"

Zinnger - you got the Trifecta, congratz...

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If you insist on seeing it that way, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. There should be the possibility of adventuring in areas that require special means or resources to reach. Hand waving everything inconvenient kind of cheapens the reward.

Except the special means *is* the water breathing ritual, which represents an opportunity cost of selecting a different spell in its place. It's also subject to dispel or antimagic, so there can be dramatic tension and risk there. What it doesnt do is make the wizard the party babysitter by forcing him to spam cantrips because he had to blow all his spells just to get the party in the door (so to speak).

 

[smcmike]

lol...Why is it that no matter what the thread, there are a dozen guys that have to offer the same advice - "If you don't like it, change it!" Well, yes, I know I can do so. But before I do, soliciting input from the community helps me a) decide if I am overreacting, b) provide ideas for how to house rule it.

Then there are the dozen posters who say "Everything else isn't balanced either, so why worry? Just have fun". And the dozen who say "xxx is optional so of course its unbalanced!"

Zinnger - you got the Trifecta, congratz...

I agree that "if you don't like it, you can change it" is a stupid way of dismissing a discussion.

On the other hand, the point isn't that other things are overpowered, it's that ritual casting is properly powered in the context of other class abilities. You have not mounted a convincing argument to the contrary. Alarm systems are nice, but not fool-proof. The spell with the biggest effect on game-play is the Tiny Hut, and the fact that it is a ritual has almost no bearing on its effectiveness - it just saves a spell slot.

 

[shoak1]

I agree that "if you don't like it, you can change it" is a stupid way of dismissing a discussion.

On the other hand, the point isn't that other things are overpowered, it's that ritual casting is properly powered in the context of other class abilities. You have not mounted a convincing argument to the contrary. Alarm systems are nice, but not fool-proof. The spell with the biggest effect on game-play is the Tiny Hut, and the fact that it is a ritual has almost no bearing on its effectiveness - it just saves a spell slot.

My point was not to convince everyone, but rather to solicit/test/consider input. After seeing everyone's input, I have concluded that there is just a bit of modification that needs to be done, rather than a complete overhaul. I am considering reducing duration or increasing cast time of rituals a bit.

 

[bgbarcus]

If I were going to modify ritual castings, if be tempted to increase the casting time by a large amount, maybe a minimum of one hour. In exchange I'd give ritual spells extra resistance to dispel magic, maybe making them as strong as a 9th level slot.

The extra cost/benefit would completely change the flavor of rituals, possibly making them a more interesting part of the game.

 

[MarkB]

Something that I just started wondering: Should we assume that TFD even functions above water? The description says it floats above the "ground" and talks about how well it can / can't handle elevation changes but says nothing about interaction with liquids.

I was wondering whether anyone would get round to mentioning that in this thread. Yeah, it's pretty useless to combine with Water Walking. Works okay with Water Breathing, if you tie rocks to your feet so that you can walk along the seabed.

 

[smcmike]

My point was not to convince everyone, but rather to solicit/test/consider input. After seeing everyone's input, I have concluded that there is just a bit of modification that needs to be done, rather than a complete overhaul. I am considering reducing duration or increasing cast time of rituals a bit.

Funny that you would call out people for making the "stop arguing and just change the rules if you don't like it" dismissal, then turn around and say you aren't actually interested in further discussion and will go change the rules. Anyways, enjoy.

 

[Zinnger]

lol...Why is it that no matter what the thread, there are a dozen guys that have to offer the same advice - "If you don't like it, change it!" Well, yes, I know I can do so. But before I do, soliciting input from the community helps me a) decide if I am overreacting, b) provide ideas for how to house rule it.

Then there are the dozen posters who say "Everything else isn't balanced either, so why worry? Just have fun". And the dozen who say "xxx is optional so of course its unbalanced!"

Zinnger - you got the Trifecta, congratz...

In looking at the OP it is indeed a simple question. "Ritual casting overpowered?" But I see that you elaborated in the OP so that readers would fully understand your reason for the question. My response was in the same format. I responded to the original question from the OP, "I see no problem (or no greater problem than anything else) with rituals." Then I elaborated so that my short answer would be better understood. I even offered possible solutions such as one that it seems you are considering now... increase the ritual casting time to one hour as they were in other editions, to further help with the "problem" of rituals. After 70+ posts there was still no word that the original situation had been resolved so it seemed like some additional emphasis might be in order. I see that you now have what you need and am happy for you. I did not mean to offend. Accept my apology and enjoy your game.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471115-ritual-casting-overpowered/page10#ixzz3phi7fodT

 

[Andor]

rope trick in a dungeon with a responsive enemy or random encounters is OP in my view. in wilderness or city adventure its UP.

Rope trick is very powerful in the specific circumstance of facing an organized and active enemy, in some area with a strong negative for retreating and reentering, but you can spare an hour for a short rest, when your party benefits strongly from a short rest, and the organized and active enemy lacks the ability to detect magic. Oh, and it costs a memorization slot and a casting slot.

Yup, that's some crazy, ez-mode crap right there. That needs to be reined in. :/

 

[shoak1]

In looking at the OP it is indeed a simple question. "Ritual casting overpowered?" But I see that you elaborated in the OP so that readers would fully understand your reason for the question. My response was in the same format. I responded to the original question from the OP, "I see no problem (or no greater problem than anything else) with rituals." Then I elaborated so that my short answer would be better understood. I even offered possible solutions such as one that it seems you are considering now... increase the ritual casting time to one hour as they were in other editions, to further help with the "problem" of rituals. After 70+ posts there was still no word that the original situation had been resolved so it seemed like some additional emphasis might be in order. I see that you now have what you need and am happy for you. I did not mean to offend. Accept my apology and enjoy your game.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471115-ritual-casting-overpowered/page10#ixzz3phi7fodT

ditto re the apology. I probably didn't need to jump down your throat. Especially since your earlier suggestion re duration was one of the posts I found most useful. Sometimes I find it a bit too easy to be a jerk in forums lol.