Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

[Berk]

The word as it's known and used today and millenia past means any person or persons who can cast or use magic. It does mean priest, cleric, sorcerer, wizard, witchdoctor, witch, etc.. etc...

I've always used it to mean the same thing in my DnD games but that is personal. A lot of people don't even know that the term magus or magi can cover the divine aspects of spellcraft.

Anyways, we all use it as we see fit in our DnD games.

As for the robe, I see no need too change it or anything as it is. How do you know that the robe wasn't created by a priest of Boccob who was also a decent level wizard or sor also. There is no history to the item itself in the DMG. Remember, this is 3e, not 1e or 2e.

 

[Mulkhoran]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........ri

And in the context of DnD terms, what does the word "priest" represent?

When used in D&D materials, "priest" means "divine caster".

Just like, when used in D&D materials, "magus" means "arcane caster".

When used outside of this context, many other definitions may apply.


That's the only position I'm taking. If you disagree, then there's little we can do to come to an agreement I think. I do see your point, but I disagree in context.

I'd *really* like to get this thread back on topic.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight

Yes, civility is good.

But as you pointed out, magus does NOT mean "divine caster".

It means "divine priest of the Medes and Persians", and ALL Magicians and Sorcerers.

And in DnD, it means "Arcane Caster".

Actually:

mage: n.

A magician or sorcerer.

ma·gus n. pl. ma·gi (mj)

1. A member of the Zoroastrian priestly caste of the Medes and Persians.
2. Magus In the New Testament, one of the wise men from the East, traditionally held to be three, who traveled to Bethlehem to pay homage to the infant Jesus.
3. A sorcerer; a magician.

You may notice that Mage is exclusive to magician or sorcerer, while Magus (or Magi) in inclusive of priests of Medes (that is, divine spell casters)

Two different terms. Interesting, isn't it?

Though I'll give you that the Robe of the Archmagi is useable by arcane spellcaster only. The same is not necessarily so for the Staff of the Magi, for it is an artifact and so does not need to follow the normal rule for a staff. Mind you, I don't think I'd allow it to be used by anyone other than an arcane spellcaster, it is interesting that the restriction does not have to apply here.

None of this really has any particular point relating directly to this thread, I suppose. The fact is that there are more powerful mage items, so I'd hardly consider this one the "top of the heap," thus I have no problems at all with the collaboration required to create it.

 

[Mulkhoran]

As for the robe, I see no need too change it or anything as it is. How do you know that the robe wasn't created by a priest of Boccob who was also a decent level wizard or sor also. There is no history to the item itself in the DMG. Remember, this is 3e, not 1e or 2e.

I realize that, but I don't dismiss out of hand the relevance of flavor from the previous editions. Like you said, it's called THIRD edition, thus at least *acknowledging* the previous editions. Else there would be no number reference

My objection is with flavor, and the restriction to arcane casters.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.......

If you disagree, then there's little we can do to come to an agreement I think.

I agree.

I'd *really* like to get this thread back on topic.

I'm not holding you back.

 

[AuraSeer]

My regular dictionary defines 'magician' and 'sorcerer' as people who practice magic (which is a synonym of 'sorcery'). Since a cleric can cast magic spells, he is by that definition a sorcerer; that means all D&D clerics can be considered dictionary magi*.

That's by the dictionary, mind you. In D&D, the words have very different meanings. If you want to get technical about it, an 'archmage' is a member of a specific arcane prestige class in the Forgotten Realms. The word doesn't necessarily apply to other arcane casters at all.

What does all this tell us? First, mixing dictionary definitions and D&D definitions can be very confusing. Second, sometimes the name of a magic item is there to sound cool, and has little relation to its actual use or construction.

*(That's magi with a small M. When referring to the priestly caste, the word is usually capitalized.)

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

And it is somewhat insulting that they have to run over to the local high-priest and beg off some divine magic to make such an item. It's fine for all those other items you mentioned, because they are more general in nature.

A powerful enough wizard could use Summon Monster IX and summon a Ghaele Archon, which casts spells as a 14th level cleric. Summon one each day, command it to cast the divine spells needed and move on.

 

[AuraSeer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

A powerful enough wizard could use Summon Monster IX and summon a Ghaele Archon, which casts spells as a 14th level cleric. Summon one each day, command it to cast the divine spells needed and move on.

This doesn't quite work. While crafting an item, a character can perform only non-strenuous tasks; he cannot cast any other spells, or even use magic items. Casting a Summon would ruin the casting process.

Using an archon is still a decent idea though, because the caster could use one of the Planar Binding spells before starting on his item. If you offered a big enough reward, the archon could agree to stay with you and assist with the item creation. Since this is a task with a specific end, the limit of one day per caster level does not apply.

 

[Anubis]

Not cheesy, but incorrect. See the DMG errata.

As I have pointed out MANY times . . . THE DMG ERRATA IS WRONG. That errata was the most ridiculous thing ever published by WotC, honestly.

Going by that errata, which CONTRADICTS EVERYTHING IN THE DMG, ANY item that requires Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle SIMPLY CAN'T BE MADE AT ALL. In fact, many other items that require spells with XP components can't be made until well into Epic levels if you use the errata.

Look at the Ring of Three Wishes, which is supposed to cost 15,918 XP . . . If you go by the errata, however, the cost is increased to 505,918 XP, which is utterly ridiculous!

ON THE OTHER HAND, something that none of you seem to have considered is a different interpretation of the errata. In the book, it states that you don't need to pay ANY of the XP costs for the prerequisite spells. Going by that logic, a Ring of Three Wishes perhaps would only require 918 XP. PERHAPS what the errata was meant to do was require you to pay the XP cost for the prerequsite spell ONCE and ONLY once. That would then require 15,918 XP for the Ring of Three Wishes, as the DMG states.

In any event, if you used Limited Wish to create a Robe of the Archmagi, it would cost a total of 600 XP for the XP Components for Limited Wish. That is what the rules state, and either the original rules OR the errata can be interpreted to state that quite clearly.

I am willing to go to both Monte AND Skip, and I'd bet all the money I have that they'd agree with me on this.

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

This doesn't quite work. While crafting an item, a character can perform only non-strenuous tasks; he cannot cast any other spells, or even use magic items. Casting a Summon would ruin the casting process.

You could interpret casting the Summon spell in this instance as being part and parcel of the crafting process, and hence is no more strenuous than expending your Bull's Strength spell slot each day when you are crafting, for example, Gauntlets of Ogre Power.