Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

[AuraSeer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight....

You could interpret casting the Summon spell in this instance as being part and parcel of the crafting process, and hence is no more strenuous than expending your Bull's Strength spell slot each day when you are crafting, for example, Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

You could rule that, but you'd be wrong. Or rather, you would be using a house rule, and one which would (IMHO) greatly unbalance item creation.

 

[kreynolds]

As I have pointed out MANY times . . . THE DMG ERRATA IS WRONG.

Funny...the errata says you are wrong. Only one of you is right. Why don't you send off your interpretation to CS and the Sage and we'll see what you get back?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

This doesn't quite work. While crafting an item, a character can perform only non-strenuous tasks; he cannot cast any other spells, or even use magic items. Casting a Summon would ruin the casting process.

Using an archon is still a decent idea though, because the caster could use one of the Planar Binding spells before starting on his item. If you offered a big enough reward, the archon could agree to stay with you and assist with the item creation. Since this is a task with a specific end, the limit of one day per caster level does not apply.

I have to say this IMO has always been one of the most moronic aspects of item creation. The absolute nature of some of these activities being strenuous is just lame. A 20th level wzard casts unseen servent to make his life easier ooops your screwed. They should of just left the term at strenuous and let what strenuous is be more situational.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Funny...the errata says you are wrong. Only one of you is right. Why don't you send off your interpretation to CS and the Sage and we'll see what you get back?

I'd say its clear that the errata is wrong. I think the intent was to say that you don't get out of the XP cost of spells if you are emulating that spell with the item. So a ring of wishes you don't get out fo the 5,000xp cost for each wish, attribute boosters are a specific wish emulator and you still don't get out of the 5,000xp cost becase its in book form. I don't think the intent was to say you don't pay the cost each day, but once.

 

[Deadguy]

Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........rii

I have to say this IMO has always been one of the most moronic aspects of item creation. The absolute nature of some of these activities being strenuous is just lame. A 20th level wzard casts unseen servent to make his life easier ooops your screwed. They should of just left the term at strenuous and let what strenuous is be more situational.

Just to drop into House Rules for a moment, I created, for the Shattered World the concept of residual casting level.

To determine the Residual Casting Level of an item crafter, subtract the Caster Level of the item from the Caster Level of the crafter. The result, if more than zero, is the effective level of the crafter whilst he is ensorcelling the item. So, for example, if the Wizard Caeval, who is a level 12, makes a wand of invisibility at Caster Level 3, his Residual Casting Level is (12-3) = 9. He can prepare and cast spells as a 9th level Wizard whilst working on the wand.

The reason for the change was the realisation that an item crafter is absolutely screwed if anyone disturbs him while crafting. Now some might like that feel, in the Shattered World it was going to create a real bar to PC item crafting. This way a powerful character can knock up a simple item whilst retaining some spellcasting capability. Only when someone pushes the envelope and goes all out to make items at the edge of their capability do they put themselves at risk. The other upshot is that it provides a small reward for multi-classing into two different spellcasting classes. For example, if Caeval is a Wizard 12/Bard 4, whilst he works on an item using his Wizard skills, he retains his full capability as a Bard. This way, item crafters aren't such pushovers all the time.

Returning you to your regular argument... I mean discussion...

 

[kreynolds]

I don't think the intent was to say you don't pay the cost each day, but once.

I never said that. The errata doesn't say that. Page 242 even states how a ring of wishes is created, stating that you only pay 15,000XP for the three wish spells that will be stored in the ring. The errata is merely reafirming what is stated on pages 241 and 242 (it is, however, at the same time, causing a bit of confusion).

If you make a ring of wishes, you don't pay the XP cost for each day you cast the wish. You pay the XP cost for the number of wishes in the item, as it is the item that is duplicating wish three times, thus the cost of 15,000XP (5,000XP per wish), which brings the total price to 97,950gp, and this has not been errated, so it is correct to date.

You only pay the XP cost for the number of times the item in question will duplicate the spell with an inherent XP cost, such as wish.

Also, you'll notice that the DMG errata states that this error is only occurs once on page 244, and it can be found under Creating Weapons, but the mistake is not made under Creating Potions. Potions are one use items, and you only pay the XP cost once.

See what I mean?

 

[Marshall]

Not cheesy, but incorrect. See the DMG errata.

No. Shards right. WotC effed up the errata for the DMG. That clarification makes no sense and raises the cost/xp cost/ time to create of every Wish/Lim Wish/Name your XP spell here based item to post-artifact levels.

They're getting really bad over there since the lay-offs started. None of their Errata has been usable for almost a year.

 

[Pbartender]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robe of the Archmagi - Bless and Spell Resistance.........riiiiiiiiiight.....

This doesn't quite work. While crafting an item, a character can perform only non-strenuous tasks; he cannot cast any other spells, or even use magic items. Casting a Summon would ruin the casting process.

Using an archon is still a decent idea though, because the caster could use one of the Planar Binding spells before starting on his item. If you offered a big enough reward, the archon could agree to stay with you and assist with the item creation. Since this is a task with a specific end, the limit of one day per caster level does not apply.

If you really wan tthe help of an Archon to make a Robe of Archmagi, why not just Gate him in instead?

 

[Mulkhoran]

I never said that. The errata doesn't say that. Page 242 even states how a ring of wishes is created, stating that you only pay 15,000XP for the three wish spells that will be stored in the ring. The errata is merely reafirming what is stated on pages 241 and 242 (it is, however, at the same time, causing a bit of confusion).

If you make a ring of wishes, you don't pay the XP cost for each day you cast the wish. You pay the XP cost for the number of wishes in the item, as it is the item that is duplicating wish three times, thus the cost of 15,000XP (5,000XP per wish), which brings the total price to 97,950gp, and this has not been errated, so it is correct to date.

You only pay the XP cost for the number of times the item in question will duplicate the spell with an inherent XP cost, such as wish.

Also, you'll notice that the DMG errata states that this error is only occurs once on page 244, and it can be found under Creating Weapons, but the mistake is not made under Creating Potions. Potions are one use items, and you only pay the XP cost once.

See what I mean?

I think I'll just keep reply-quoting this so it's repeated at regular intervals during the conversation. Since, after all, it's right.

 

[Anubis]

Funny...the errata says you are wrong. Only one of you is right. Why don't you send off your interpretation to CS and the Sage and we'll see what you get back?

I'm game. Like I said, I think they'll agree with me. No way would they force you to pay the XP costs every day. As I said, that would make some items impossible to create.

I never said that. The errata doesn't say that. Page 242 even states how a ring of wishes is created, stating that you only pay 15,000XP for the three wish spells that will be stored in the ring. The errata is merely reafirming what is stated on pages 241 and 242 (it is, however, at the same time, causing a bit of confusion).

If you make a ring of wishes, you don't pay the XP cost for each day you cast the wish. You pay the XP cost for the number of wishes in the item, as it is the item that is duplicating wish three times, thus the cost of 15,000XP (5,000XP per wish), which brings the total price to 97,950gp, and this has not been errated, so it is correct to date.

You only pay the XP cost for the number of times the item in question will duplicate the spell with an inherent XP cost, such as wish.

Also, you'll notice that the DMG errata states that this error is only occurs once on page 244, and it can be found under Creating Weapons, but the mistake is not made under Creating Potions. Potions are one use items, and you only pay the XP cost once.

See what I mean?

Ah . . . So the whole time, you've actually agreed with my second option, the other possible interpretation of the errata?

So, lemme get this straight . . . If you use Limited Wish to cast the Cleric spells to make a Robe of the Archmagi, do you believe the caster will have to pay insane amounts of XP, or just 600 as the correct interpretation says?