D&D 5E Rogue (11) Multiclass options

[bbrown12]

Thanks for your answers. I considered your suggestions, but am still not quite sure about the next levels.

Meanwhile, our DM ruled the following:
1.) We are playing the variant rule for resting now (short rest = 1 day; long rest = 7 days), so I won't take much advantage of "per short rest" stuff.
2.) My DM ruled that we are restricted to two classes for multiclassing. So, I am restricted to Rogue/Fighter in my further class options.


My current build:

Race: Humant(variant)
Class: Rogue (11) / Fighter (1)
Archetype: Arcane Trickster with Familiar (Owl), giving me Advantage in Fights due Help Action.
Abilities: STR 8 | DEX 20 | CON 14 | WIS 12 | INT 12 | CHA 13
Feats:Crossbow Expert (second attack with Bonus Action), Sharpshooter (-5 AT/+10 DMG)
Fighting-Style: Ranged combat with Hand-Crossbow using Bonus-Aktion for second attack with Sharpshooter (-5/+10).


Possibilities:

Because I think the real high Rogue levels don't offer that good stuff, I am pretty sure to stop at Rogue 15-17. The question is more like when should I pick the fighter levels best? Both classes offer nice stuff. I want to find out, which suits best for the next levels[/U]. (I left out features that are not important for me or because of the rest variant rule.)

1.) Fighter (5) -> Rogue (15)

• Fighter 2: Action surge (almost useless with variant resting rule)
• Fighter 3: Battlemaster Superior Dice (Fighter 3) - Precision Attack to turn a miss into a hit. Pushing Attack(15 feet) to shove enemies from cliffs, etc.
• Fighter 4: ASI
• Fighter 5: Extra Attack
• Rogue 12: Extra ASI - RP-Feat or Resilient: Constitution
• Rogue 13: +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus + Level 3 spells
• Rogue 14: Haste spell + Blindsight
• Rogue 15: Slippery Mind (Proficiency with WIS saving throws) +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus

2.) Fighter (3) -> Rogue (15) -> Fighter (5) :

• Fighter 2: Action surge (almost useless with variant resting rule)
• Fighter 3: Battlemaster Superior Dice (Fighter 3) - Precision Attack to turn a miss into a hit. Pushing Attack(15 feet) to shove enemies from cliffs, etc.
• Rogue 12: Extra ASI - RP-Feat or Resilient: Constitution
• Rogue 13: +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus + Level 3 spells
• Rogue 14: Haste spell + Blindsight
• Rogue 15: Slippery Mind (Proficiency with WIS saving throws) +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus
• Fighter 4: ASI
• Fighter 5: Extra Attack

3.) Rogue (15) -> Fighter (5):

• Rogue 12: Extra ASI - RP-Feat or Resilient: Constitution
• Rogue 13: +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus + Level 3 spells
• Rogue 14: Haste spell + Blindsight
• Rogue 15: Slippery Mind (Proficiency with WIS saving throws) +1W6 Sneak Attack Bonus
• Fighter 2: Action surge (almost useless with variant resting rule)
• Fighter 3: Battlemaster Superior Dice (Fighter 3) - Precision Attack to turn a miss into a hit. Pushing Attack(15 feet) to shove enemies from cliffs, etc.
• Fighter 4: ASI
• Fighter 5: Extra Attack

Final thoughts:

Extra Attack: Extra Attack let's me take more advantage out of Sharpshooter, simply because I have one more shot/round. Otherwise, I get a lot of cool stuff from the following Rogue levels in really late game (Haste, Slippery Mind, ...). It almost feels like the possibility to boost myself with Haste + the 2D6 extra damage would compensate the missing attack quite well.

Superior Dice: I really like the fact to turn a miss into a hit with Precision Attack or shove a creature 15 feet with Pushing Attack (down cliffs, etc.). The question is, when to go for those two levels. Now or until Rogue 15? We are doing a short rests at maximum once per dungeon. So, I won't be able to spam those shots.

Stop at Fighter (3): It sounds like a wasted ASI, but it really isn't, because both Rogue 12 and Rouge 16 offer an ASI. So, I will have the same amount of ASI + progress in the Rogue class.


I am interested in your suggestions! Thanks in advance!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Since you can't do bard, you could be champion level 7.

Extended crit range does not hurt when you are doing sneak attacks with advantage. Half proficiency bonus on dexterity checks means a floor of 18 on initiative checks.

 

[bbrown12]

Thanks for your answer. I know that somehow doubles my SA crit bonus. But to be honest, this is something you really can't rely on. Furthermore, Fighter 7 means that I wouldn't get Slippery Mind what is HUGE.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Thanks for your answer. I know that somehow doubles my SA crit bonus. But to be honest, this is something you really can't rely on. Furthermore, Fighter 7 means that I wouldn't get Slippery Mind what is HUGE.

Yes. And better sooner than later. Take rogue to level 15 first. Take resilient constitution. Your Last ASI wherever it may come from could be +1con +1cha.
Two attacks are nice, but not in necessary when you can shoot twice as crossbow expert. And since you can get haste earlier than extra attack, it seems like a good idea. Also +2 AC and double speed is especially useful with your short range weapons. And last but not least, advantage on dexterity saves in combination with evasions makes you quasi immune vs damaging spells or many breath weapons.

 

[bbrown12]

Thanks for your reply!

Meanwhile, I think Extra Attack is the way to go, although I was almost putting that thought aside. But someone on a different thread on GITP convinced me:

I'm not going to break out all the math, but suffice it to say that I've done it several times and the gist of it is get extra attack ASAP. Mathematically you should already have it.

To explain it, each additional D6 of sneak attack is marginally less helpful, as in it contributes a smaller percentage of damage to your overall damage. Going from 2d6 to 3d6 sneak attack dice is a 50% increase in SA damage, but from 7d6 to 8d6 is only 14% increase.

On the other hand with each D6 of sneak attack extra attack is more helpful, as it provides a second chance each round to do all those d6s. So to sum up, your rate of return on rogue levels is diminishing, while your return on acquiring extra attack is accelerating.

A typical rogue at level 10 does about 1d8+5d6+5 damage a round, hitting on average 65% of the time. That's a DPR of 17.55. A rogue 5/Fighter 5 does ((1d8+7)x2)*.65 + (3d6)*87.75 for a total DPR of 24.15.

In your situation you can see how having even more SA dice makes extra attack even more valuable, get it ASAP.

EDIT: I lied about not doing the math for you. I'm a nerd and like to do math, so here goes:
Fighter first route puts you at Rogue 11/Fighter 5 while Rogue first route puts you at Rogue 15/Fighter 1.

Rogue Build: Since you have archery style you should have a base of 75% hit chance so that's ((1d6+5)*2)*75% + 8d6*87.75%. That's 37.32 DPR. If you use SS it's ((1d6+15)*2)*50% + 8d6*75% for a DPR of 39.5.

Fighter Build: You now have 3 attacks so without SS that's ((1d6+5)*3)*75% + 6d6*98% so 39.7 DPR. But with SS it looks like ((1d6+15)*3)*50% + 6d6*87.5%. That's a DPR of 46.125.

I find that reasonable. From the damage perspective, Extra Attack is better. The only BIG advantages are Haste and Slippery Mind. But Haste is only twice per long rest and I probably can get some Haste scrolls and take resilient on Fighter (4).


Furhtermore, concerning the Superior Dice:

Precision attack is the only one you should really use. [...] Turning a miss into a hit adds 1d6+15 damage with potential to ensure sneak attack.

Agreed with PeteNutButter that Precision will be the one you will use most frequently.
For the two others, I'd suggest by order of preference...
- Menacing Attack: what's not to love? Defense for everyone (frightened so disadvantage on attacks) and safe distance for a turn (frightened so can't willingly move closer to you).
- Pushing/Disarm/Trip attack: can help you help allies with some kind of soft control at times.
- Evasive Manoeuvers: not mandatory by far on a character that has Cunning Action: Disengage and plan on staying at range most of the time. Can be great though if you get swarmed for some reason and want to Dash away.

Just wanted to share this.

Kind regards!