Rogue/Barbarian sneak attack while raging?

[Illuminae]

just one more post thought:
if theres NOTHING on the rules saying that you CANT do it, not even closely implying, WHY are you wasting neurons with this, maybe creating a problem taht isnt there?

 

[Crothian]

Re: to Sneak attack is not to concentrate

The answer is 4 paragraphs up. A ROGUE DOESNT NEED MORE CONCENTRATION TO SNEAK ATTACK THAN TO MAKE A REGULAR ATTACK. BECAUSE HES *ALWAYS* TRYING TO SNEAK ATTACK. WHAT DIFFERS A REGULAR ATTACK FROM A SNEAK ATTACK IS THE GUARD OF THE DEFENDER. *NOT* THE ROGUE.
Someone who knows how to attack a vital spot will always try to do so. thats why a PURE ROGUE DOESNT NEED MORE TIME to sneak attack than to make a regular attack.

This is completely true. The only limits are the defense of the target, seeing the target, and gaining acces to vital areas on the target. However, I still feel that it should require more concentration to do a sneak attack then to preform an average attack. The idea that every attack of a rogues is at vital areas is a little to simplistic and unreastic for me.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Illuminae, on what page of what book does it say:

"The answer is 4 paragraphs up. A ROGUE DOESNT NEED MORE CONCENTRATION TO SNEAK ATTACK THAN TO MAKE A REGULAR ATTACK. BECAUSE HES *ALWAYS* TRYING TO SNEAK ATTACK. WHAT DIFFERS A REGULAR ATTACK FROM A SNEAK ATTACK IS THE GUARD OF THE DEFENDER. *NOT* THE ROGUE.
Someone who knows how to attack a vital spot will always try to do so. thats why a PURE ROGUE DOESN'T NEED MORE TIME to sneak attack than to make a regular attack."

 

[Illuminae]

However, I still feel that it should require more concentration to do a sneak attack then to preform an average attack. The idea that every attack of a rogues is at vital areas is a little to simplistic and unreastic for me.

I feel that way too, but thats no more understanding the rules, but questioning them...

But Im so tired of reading, writing and thinking about balance, if this or that is or isnt overpowered/broken that i dont dare to try to deeply analise something as complex (in terms of balance) as this ability.

But , again, I DO FEEL that the ways you can sneak attack are maybe too many, and that sometimes even takes out the previous editions flavor of the backstab. Alas, Sneak attack when flanking is not as cool as when arising up from where the target cant see you.

My group usually calls a sneak attack a mini-fireball...

euahauheuheauh

 

[Illuminae]

Lemme translate:

A ROGUE DOESNT NEED MORE CONCENTRATION TO SNEAK ATTACK THAN TO MAKE A REGULAR ATTACK.

The time taken to sneak attack is the same taken to make aregular attack.

You DO know that, right?

BECAUSE HES *ALWAYS* TRYING TO SNEAK ATTACK. WHAT DIFFERS A REGULAR ATTACK FROM A SNEAK ATTACK IS THE GUARD OF THE DEFENDER. *NOT* THE ROGUE.

My analisys of the rules: what part of the whole post didnt you understand? I can make it clearer, but im not in the mood to rewrite everything in a new way.

Someone who knows how to attack a vital spot will always try to do so. thats why a PURE ROGUE DOESN'T NEED MORE TIME to sneak attack than to make a regular attack."

Simplification of the thought, and a link to the first quote.

Besides, you DO know that i didnt copy those lines from anywhere. So why ask that?

I still think that sneak takes "concentration", so I am still in my camp, LOL.

you dont seem to be opened to different ideas, so why ask anything at all?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Dr Zoom did you see this:

"…while raging cannot use skills or abilities that require patience or concentration, SUCH AS moving silently or casting spells."

The SUCH AS impies that their are more than these exapmles.

Yes, I was just making my point about what was listed, not what was not listed.

IMO, sneak attack is a much differant kind of thing than moving silently or casting a spell. Those require patience and concentration. Sneak attack does not.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a DM who rules otherwise, but I respectfully disagree.

 

[Xarlen]

Illum, don't need to use caplocks. YOu can your words to make them emphasized.

But, it appears that those who've set up in one camp aren't really going to change their mind.

But, in D&D, you can't make Called Shots because it's believed that *everyone* is trying to hit the vital areas.

However, Rogues hit even better. They know how to twist the blade and jerk it just right; something that is still doable when you're raging. Furthermore, it hurts *worse* because the Barbarian/rogue is raging. Think of the rogue stabbing his knife into someone's side, and twisting, before pulling it free. The Barbarian would punch harder, Jerk it upward, and *Yank* it out with more force, ergo the extended strenght modifer.

I don't see any Unbalancing factor about allowing a barbarian/rogue sneak attacking. What are you trying to prevent them from doing? They have to decide if they want to rage, or sneak attack, in combat, then. So it's either use One class, or use another, in classes that are combat oriented.

How can raging effect sneak attack? Let's say the two are flanking. The enemy turns to deal with the fighter, and the angry rogue slams his axe into the enemy's back, and yanks it down. Hitting someoen in the back or the neck or a limb, or other vital areas, doesn't take much concentration; it just takes the same amount of time as a regular hit.

All rogues have to do is Hit someone, when a sneak attack applies. No taking an extra amount of time to concentrate, no focusing. I have to agree with Illum since it's the Person who looses their dex bonus, that opens themselves up to get hit, not the rogue doing anything special to their attack except hitting them. The *Flavor Text* is what says rogues hit vital areas.

Edit: Furtheremore on Concentrating and taking time, let's look at the skills that are void when Raging.

Move silently. You can't Run when you're moving silently, you can only move half your movement rate. That means it takes more time then moving regularly. That takes concentration, when raging.

Casting a spell. That would generally open you up to an AoO if you did it in combat. It's leaving you open, and unguarded, focusing on the spell itself.

Craft. You have to take hours or times to work on this. Can't do this when you're pretty angry.

Intuit Direction. You're focusing on figuring where you're going, not really strong and angry tryign to hit things.

When you're sneak attacking, you're trying to hit things very effectively. When you're raging, you're trying to hit things harder. Why can't they go together?

 

[Illuminae]

YOu can your words to make them emphasized.

?
seems to be a word missing

 

[Xarlen]

Put a [] around a B, and then [/b].

b Like this /b, with the [] around the B's.

 

[Steven McRownt]

1st. Makin a sneak attack, even if you don't need special concentration, you need to have the mind clear. In some way a rouge should use all his agility (in D&D terms=dexterity) to put himself in the position of a sneak attack.

2nd. On the other side we have the Barb. When raging he goes in a combat frenzy, he's like a bull who see red all around him. His strenght goes up, and even his ability to sustain damage. But a Barb loose some AC bonuses. His mind is less clear, he can't try to open his way through his enemies and still concentrate on other things.

IMHO, a Barb can't sneak attack. He doesn't mind if -like illuminae said- the defender has his defences up or down. He wan't to split the defender in half. A rouge must be willing to make a sneak attack, and this consciousness is something that a barb in rage doesn't have.

Steven McRownt