Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
If you've got access to "Races of Stone," Whisper Gnomes are superior to Halflings in every way, to the point that they probably should have a level adjustment (but they don't).
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Rogue Preference
- Thread starter disgruntledarcher
- Start date
Jeff Wilder
First Post
Depending upon what sourcebooks your DM is allowing, a halfling fighter/rogue "skiprock specialist" can be incredibly effective. (I have an NPC along these lines, although my PCs haven't yet had occasion to be in battle with him.)
More generally, the decision to go halfling or human is a matter of whether you want to fight in melee or at range. Melee has the advantage of more frequent sneak attacks. Ranged has the advantage that you can concentrate more upon rogue than fighter levels (because you don't need the hit points as badly, nor as many combat feats to be effective).
Don't get me wrong ... halflings can be effective melee fighters, but humans will generally be better at it. And it's not just a matter of damage output ... it's also defensive aspects, such as halflings being much easier for large monsters to swallow whole (which sucks).
More generally, the decision to go halfling or human is a matter of whether you want to fight in melee or at range. Melee has the advantage of more frequent sneak attacks. Ranged has the advantage that you can concentrate more upon rogue than fighter levels (because you don't need the hit points as badly, nor as many combat feats to be effective).
Don't get me wrong ... halflings can be effective melee fighters, but humans will generally be better at it. And it's not just a matter of damage output ... it's also defensive aspects, such as halflings being much easier for large monsters to swallow whole (which sucks).
Darklone
Registered User
At first: Get a halfling subrace with lowlight vision, a feat that gives low light vision or some multiclass combo with a spell that gives low light vision. 
Second: Get up to 4 levels in other classes, perhaps bbn2/ftr2 or four levels fighter... Then pick up a spiked chain. With Power Attack and Weapon Finesse, a halfling spiked chain fighter is (except for trips, you better focus on disarms) deals more damage than a human with the same attribute array before racial adjustments
Well, the human can still get enlarged though
Depending how many fighter levels you picked, a few levels Exotic weapon master might be worth it later, easy to get into and funny to have. Master thrower or invisible blade are other options.
Second: Get up to 4 levels in other classes, perhaps bbn2/ftr2 or four levels fighter... Then pick up a spiked chain. With Power Attack and Weapon Finesse, a halfling spiked chain fighter is (except for trips, you better focus on disarms) deals more damage than a human with the same attribute array before racial adjustments
Well, the human can still get enlarged though
Depending how many fighter levels you picked, a few levels Exotic weapon master might be worth it later, easy to get into and funny to have. Master thrower or invisible blade are other options.
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Herpes Cineplex
First Post
Something else you might want to consider is what level the game is starting at and how long you're likely to be playing a character.
In longer games, I feel like attribute adjustments and racial skill bonuses tend to become less important; either they become insignificant next to all the cool abilities you pick up along the way, or you use magic items that outshine them completely. Meanwhile, things like an extra feat and an extra skill point per level don't really pay off in a big way if the game is short or played exclusively at low levels, where racial bonuses make a bigger impact.
But the topic was asking for our preferences for a "battle-capable character with respectable skills," and so I'll just say that, personally, I'd go with a human rogue to start with (high Int, high Dex, and at least a decent Con) and add in at least one level of fighter later on (possibly two) for the extra combat feats and other bonuses. And then from that point on, I'd be trying to get my hands on items that would address the weaknesses of rogue/fighter combos; stuff like Goggles of Night or a Belt of Dwarvenkind to get darkvision, Con-enhancers, weapons that do extra damage to undead, a circlet of persuasion, stuff that boosts Will saves, and so on.
But honestly, it's not a preference that I hold because of any clear mechanical advantage to a human rogue/fighter build; it's mostly just because I like humans, and I like rogues.
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it's my race/character combo of choice, in fact
ryan
In longer games, I feel like attribute adjustments and racial skill bonuses tend to become less important; either they become insignificant next to all the cool abilities you pick up along the way, or you use magic items that outshine them completely. Meanwhile, things like an extra feat and an extra skill point per level don't really pay off in a big way if the game is short or played exclusively at low levels, where racial bonuses make a bigger impact.
But the topic was asking for our preferences for a "battle-capable character with respectable skills," and so I'll just say that, personally, I'd go with a human rogue to start with (high Int, high Dex, and at least a decent Con) and add in at least one level of fighter later on (possibly two) for the extra combat feats and other bonuses. And then from that point on, I'd be trying to get my hands on items that would address the weaknesses of rogue/fighter combos; stuff like Goggles of Night or a Belt of Dwarvenkind to get darkvision, Con-enhancers, weapons that do extra damage to undead, a circlet of persuasion, stuff that boosts Will saves, and so on.
But honestly, it's not a preference that I hold because of any clear mechanical advantage to a human rogue/fighter build; it's mostly just because I like humans, and I like rogues.
--
it's my race/character combo of choice, in fact
ryan
Orm
Explorer
Some levels rogue, 2 to 4 levels Fighter and a few levels of deepwoodsniper. High DEX, decent STR and CON. You´ll dish out a lot of ranged damage -either sneak or not and you can stand some rounds in melee.
Works well for my current character (rog10/ftr3/dws5), currently slain by some npc deepwoodsniper...
Works well for my current character (rog10/ftr3/dws5), currently slain by some npc deepwoodsniper...
ForceUser
Explorer
It sucks. Try Unfettered from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed instead. Anyone who wants to play a Fighter/Rogue should just play an Unfettered: d8 HD, fighter BAB, light armor, sneak attacks, parry (uber-dodge), bonus feats, class AC bonuses, and 4 skill points/level with combat-focused rogue skills such as Tumble.Darklone said:
ARandomGod
First Post
disgruntledarcher said:
Straight rogue is pretty good. Look at those special rogue only bonus feats you get at level 10+.
If you can get catfolk, even at +1 LA it's a pretty awesome rogue class. Greater speed AND lowlight vision, and an even higher + to dex. (But the favored class isn't rogue, making multiclassing trickier).
Halfling's limit on multiclassing shouldn't mean all that much, as their favored class is rogue. As for multiclassing. I suggest +2's.
+2 fighter, +2 ranger, +2 Monk or barbarian... or both if you can swing it. It's actually not TOO hard to get both without stretching rules or roleplay much. Starting as a rogue ('cause you're a halfling and that's what your daddy taught you), and go join a monastery. Get a couple of levels of monk and lose your lawful status, because you're not really inclined to lawful, and you were finding it harder and harder to live under those imposed rules. Then some ranger and rogue levels, then one or two levels of barb after you're sufficiently away from monk. (Take two levels of barb if you're only not going to take rogue beyond the first uncanny dodge, so that you can get improved uncanny).
Get also a belt of dwarven kind. Whether you're human OR halfling. Or Catfolk for that matter... it's a good item.
Lefferts
First Post
I have a dwarf fighter/rogue in one of my campaigns that has turned out pretty
well. I used feats like Nimble Fingers to make up for the lack of skill points from
fighter level. The first time I brought him out, the other players were shocked by
the amount of damage you can do sneak-attacking with a bastard sword and the
Improved Critical feat.
Lefferts
well. I used feats like Nimble Fingers to make up for the lack of skill points from
fighter level. The first time I brought him out, the other players were shocked by
the amount of damage you can do sneak-attacking with a bastard sword and the
Improved Critical feat.
Lefferts
Pbartender
First Post
Goblin undoubtedly make the best sneaky rogues: Small-sized, big bonus to Move Silently, Darkvision and a 30' movement. Otherwise go with a Deep Halfling Rogue, if you really want sneaky. Deep Halflings are a halflung sub-race right out of the good old Monster Manual. They lose the +2 bonus to Move Silently, Jump and Climb in favor of gaining 60' Darkvision and the Dwarf's Stonecunning ability.
Swashbuckler's not all that bad, especially if no one in your group owns AU.
Right now, I've got a Deep Halfling Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3. He fights with two daggers, get's a +12 to attack with them, and deals 1d3+5 damage (+2d6 sneak attacks) when he hits. He's an absolute terror when he sneak attacks.
He can very easily multiclass into either the Invisible Blade or Master Thrower PrC (or both!), depending on whether he'd rather fight melee or ranged.
He wears no armor, and carries only the smallest weapons, so he's exceedingly inconspicuous. With a Handy Haversack, a Ring of Sustenance, and a few AC enhancers, he's a virtually independent scout for the party.
ForceUser said:
Swashbuckler's not all that bad, especially if no one in your group owns AU.
Right now, I've got a Deep Halfling Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3. He fights with two daggers, get's a +12 to attack with them, and deals 1d3+5 damage (+2d6 sneak attacks) when he hits. He's an absolute terror when he sneak attacks.
He can very easily multiclass into either the Invisible Blade or Master Thrower PrC (or both!), depending on whether he'd rather fight melee or ranged.
He wears no armor, and carries only the smallest weapons, so he's exceedingly inconspicuous. With a Handy Haversack, a Ring of Sustenance, and a few AC enhancers, he's a virtually independent scout for the party.
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