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5E Rogue Starting Feat

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
So my home games you start off with a feat to allow more options at early levels. The DM and I wanted to test out the new class variants to see how balanced they are and if they break anything. I decided to play rogue and be using a bow since I have never done a ranged attacker outside of a spell caster. So Longbow it is since I’m playing a wood elf. The class variant for rogue was an ability called Aim. You gain advantage as long as you don’t move at all on your turn unless you were forced to move. It also eats up your bonus action, meaning you only have one chance to hit. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to get Sharpshooter first or Elven Accuracy. Sharpshooter mostly will be canceled out by the Aim ability but Elven Accuracy would make me hit most of the time. Thoughts?
 

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Well in my games, my home rule is that you get a Feat at character gen, but it is ONLY a Racial Feat from Xanathar's Guide to Everything/Racial Feat UA. So if you go by that route, than Elven Accuracy makes more sense in my opinion. If your allowing all the Feats as a Character Gen option, then it may be a bit more tougher to go with that choice. But it ultimately is determined by what your trying to do. If Sharpshooter is going to be cancelled out most of the time, then go for the boost EA provides.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
Well in my games, my home rule is that you get a Feat at character gen, but it is ONLY a Racial Feat from Xanathar's Guide to Everything/Racial Feat UA. So if you go by that route, than Elven Accuracy makes more sense in my opinion. If your allowing all the Feats as a Character Gen option, then it may be a bit more tougher to go with that choice. But it ultimately is determined by what your trying to do. If Sharpshooter is going to be cancelled out most of the time, then go for the boost EA provides.
I meant canceled by having advantage since I have advantage I have a higher chance of hitting with Sharpshooter gaining a +10 to damage.
 

I meant canceled by having advantage since I have advantage I have a higher chance of hitting with Sharpshooter gaining a +10 to damage.
As a Rogue you want to hit. Your damage comes from Sneak attack. The best part of Sharpshooter on a Rogue is avoiding the penalties to hit for cover, and no disadvantage at long range (making you more accurate, and allowing long ranged sneak attacks).

As you advance in level, the -5/ +10 actually becomes an increasingly worse deal. Reducing your chances to land a +5d6 sneak attack by -5 in exchange for an extra 10 points of damage is not a good trade off (it's mechanically worse from a DPR perspective against most AC's) and it gets worse from there.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Why not take crossbow expertise so you don't have to worry about something moving up to melee with you?

Outside of that if you have an odd Dex definitely take elven accuracy. If you don't I'd still take it but it's not as clear cut.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
I wouldn’t benefit from using a hand crossbow since I’m eat
Why not take crossbow expertise so you don't have to worry about something moving up to melee with you?

Outside of that if you have an odd Dex definitely take elven accuracy. If you don't I'd still take it but it's not as clear cut.
I wouldn’t benefit from the bonus action attack since that’s being eaten by me using up Aim from Cunning Action. No disadvantage while being within 5ft is literally pointless if I’m 300ft away. I plan on being as far as possible and if they get too close I would just pull out my Shortswords when they get within a turn. Also the Longbow doesn’t have a loading property.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
As a Rogue you want to hit. Your damage comes from Sneak attack. The best part of Sharpshooter on a Rogue is avoiding the penalties to hit for cover, and no disadvantage at long range (making you more accurate, and allowing long ranged sneak attacks).

As you advance in level, the -5/ +10 actually becomes an increasingly worse deal. Reducing your chances to land a +5d6 sneak attack by -5 in exchange for an extra 10 points of damage is not a good trade off (it's mechanically worse from a DPR perspective against most AC's) and it gets worse from there.
I haven’t thought of that. I’m still going to take Sharpshooter for the range. Having the melee attackers take awhile to get to me would be nice and in an enclosed room I would have the Paladin as Protection while I take out my Shortswords
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I wouldn’t benefit from the bonus action attack since that’s being eaten by me using up Aim from Cunning Action. No disadvantage while being within 5ft is literally pointless if I’m 300ft away. I plan on being as far as possible and if they get too close I would just pull out my Shortswords when they get within a turn. Also the Longbow doesn’t have a loading property.
Unless I am missing something, the moment something engages you then you stop sneak attacking, you stop getting advantage, you stop benefiting from elven accuracy.
 

I haven’t thought of that. I’m still going to take Sharpshooter for the range. Having the melee attackers take awhile to get to me would be nice and in an enclosed room I would have the Paladin as Protection while I take out my Shortswords
Personally I would take Elven accuracy.

With easy advantage on account of Aim, you're constantly rolling 'trivantage' drastically increasing your chances to crit. Crits double sneak attack damage as well remember.

You also get +1 to Dex with the feat, giving you a Starting Dex of 18 as a Wood Elf (so a further +1 to hit, damage, Stealth, initiative, thieves tools etc).

Heck I would be sorely tempted to take 3 levels of Fighter (Champion) for action surge, archery fighting style and 19-20 crit range. With constant 'trivantage' you should be scoring a hell of a lot of critical hits (double sneak attack dice). Maybe 5 levels if Extra attack is something you're keen on.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
Unless I am missing something, the moment something engages you then you stop sneak attacking, you stop getting advantage, you stop benefiting from elven accuracy.
I wouldn’t benefit from Elven Accuracy, but I’m still Sneak Attacking with two short swords. Sharpshooter vs. Elven Accuracy is when I’m using my Longbow, I wouldn’t benefit from both when I’m within 5ft. Crossbow doesn’t have any range compared to a longbow.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
A few notes:
One of the most important benefits of SS is the ability to negate cover.

Longbows have 600ft range with sharpshooter. That's also important but it's usefulness is also highly campaign dependent and also something the DM can decide to bypass with encounter design if it becomes to big of an asset. It's an amazing perk when it happens.

The -5/+10 isn't all that good for a rogue. I might be okay by the time you max dex and have elven accuracy.

The best tactic I found using a SS rogue was to kite enemies after me with disengage and shoot at ones that were engaged with my allies (to enable sneak attack). Wouldn't take long to free the allies up and they would typically come to my aid as long as I had maneuvered to within their movement range.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I wouldn’t benefit from Elven Accuracy, but I’m still Sneak Attacking with two short swords. Sharpshooter vs. Elven Accuracy is when I’m using my Longbow, I wouldn’t benefit from both when I’m within 5ft. Crossbow doesn’t have any range compared to a longbow.
How do you sneak attack with two short swords - note the enemy is in your face - allies aren't around. How exactly are you sneak attacking? Or do you anticipate that your melee allies are going to stand beside you till something comes after you?
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
Personally I would take Elven accuracy.

With easy advantage on account of Aim, you're constantly rolling 'trivantage' drastically increasing your chances to crit. Crits double sneak attack damage as well remember.

You also get +1 to Dex with the feat, giving you a Starting Dex of 18 as a Wood Elf (so a further +1 to hit, damage, Stealth, initiative, thieves tools etc).

Heck I would be sorely tempted to take 3 levels of Fighter (Champion) for action surge, archery fighting style and 19-20 crit range. With constant 'trivantage' you should be scoring a hell of a lot of critical hits (double sneak attack dice). Maybe 5 levels if Extra attack is something you're keen on.
I honestly hate not multiclassing since I find it extremely boring to just be a Thief Rogue or Swashbuckler. Multiclassing I find fun for RP and story. I most likely will take 3 levels and not 5 since I would miss out on a lot of rogue abilities at later levels.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
How do you sneak attack with two short swords - note the enemy is in your face - allies aren't around. How exactly are you sneak attacking? Or do you anticipate that your melee allies are going to stand beside you till something comes after you?
One word. Familiar. The game the DM runs is high magic so a ring of spell storing would be reasonable to rent for an hour. Have the Bard cast Find Familiar into it and have myself cast it and now I have a pet owl familiar. The Bard has Ritual Caster.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
One word. Familiar. The game the DM runs is high magic so a ring of spell storing would be reasonable to rent for an hour. Have the Bard cast Find Familiar into it and have myself cast it and now I have a pet owl familiar. The Bard has Ritual Caster.
That's fair. Do you not expect the familiar to die much?
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Other interesting note: its not very clear that a spell can be cast as a ritual and stored into a ring of spell storing. Item talks about slots and such.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
Yes I expect my pet Owl to die all the time. I only let him free from the backpack if I’m in melee. Being in the bag counts as full cover and if he’s still as a statue and added some pillows it wouldn’t look suspicious.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Yes I expect my pet Owl to die all the time. I only let him free from the backpack if I’m in melee. Being in the bag counts as full cover and if he’s still as a statue and added some pillows it wouldn’t look suspicious.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or serious.
 

TrueBagelMan

Explorer
Seriousness. Having it full of pillows makes sure that my familiar wouldn’t die in it from sharp objects and makes it seem like it’s full. I would keep all my junk like gold, silver, and currencies in there as well since they have no value. I then have a secret compartment where I keep an item like a bag of holding to store magic items and buttons. My character has a strange love for buttons. He’s a thief but thinks that gold and such is worthless. Buttons are the truly valuable.
 

Horwath

Adventurer
Elven accuracy all the way.

18 dex at aft level and "double" advantage will take care for most of the cover bonus to AC.

Might consider MCing to 3 levels of fighter(champion) for expanded crit chance. Around 27%
 

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