Rogue/warlock viability...

[Klaus]

I'd look at Warlock paragon paths to take before multiclassing into Warlock completely.

There's not a lot out right now but Arcane Power will be out next month.

Also get a dagger. +1 to hit on your warlock powers is just sexy. (you can have a shortsword too. Actually if you're looking for more AC you could pick up the parry dagger if you did.)

The Paragon Path I want is from rogue already. The Warlock multi is for flavor/versatility.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sneak Attack can therefore be used with warlock powers channeled through a pact blade.

Hmmm. The last errata on sneak attack makes it read "... and hit with a light blade, the crossbow, or a sling, the attack deals extra damage." Which seems to me to be saying fairly clearly that it is intended by RAW to work only when using the weapon as a weapon, otherwise wouldn't it say "... and hit with an attack using a light blade...".

Granted it is definitely ambiguous. I wouldn't necessarily take anything Character Builder does as indicating definitively what the official rules are either, the rogue weapon talent +1 for warlock attacks is also rather ambiguous. By analogy with proficiency bonuses you can easily argue it shouldn't be granted.

Of course it is a cool build and all, I like it, so I'd be inclined to go with the weapon talent giving a +1. Not so sure about the sneak attack though. That could be a very nasty one. Granted rogues can sneak attack with thrown weapons already, but warlock powers can be quite a bit more potent than a thrown dagger, in general.

 

[keterys]

You definitely get the +1 attacks with the dagger for warlock powers by RAW. But yes, you want to check with your DM on the sneak attack thing. I'd be okay with it personally, but eh.

I'd also, if I was the DM mind you, suggest picking up the feat for sorcerers that let them do their ranged spells through their dagger as melee attacks and waive the 'sorcerer' prereq, cause it fit.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You definitely get the +1 attacks with the dagger for warlock powers by RAW.
.

Where do you get that from? I see no text anywhere that indicates the +1 with dagger is available for any situation other than delivering an attack WITH the dagger. Saying Character Builder gives you that plus is not sufficient, CB has any number of small bugs when it comes to unusual combinations resulting from multiclassing. Not that I think it is a huge big deal, but it certainly isn't clearly RAW.

 

[keterys]

You may be missing the fact that a warlock power used with a pact blade (or similar effect) -is- attacking with the dagger? The rogue weapon talent gives +1 attack when 'wielding a dagger', and a pact blade is most definitely wielded when used.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, that is another consideration, it just wasn't clear to me from what people were saying that they were exclusively talking about pact blades (and ones that are daggers at that). It still relegates the whole thing to that woolly definition of 'wield' which is not exceptionally clear. WotC would definitely be clarifying the rules considerably in general if they would unequivocally define wield. As I say, I'd give him the +1, no doubt.

I'm still quite skeptical about the SA thing though. When you use a pact blade (dagger) as an implement you are not "hitting with" the implement, so by strict construction I don't think you would get SA damage with a ranged attack power delivered with it. More to the point I think it may be unbalancing. Eldritch Blast with SA damage attached is pretty nasty. I'd have to seriously consider how that would balance vs what a rogue could do with SA and a ranged weapon. Since only dagger, crossbow, and sling qualify for SA at range it really devolves down to what is the best crossbow you could use? Indeed AVs Superior Crossbow delivers d10 damage (and at better range than any spell), though it requires load minor and a feat slot for proficiency. So the comparison at that point makes it reasonably even. Power Swap feats are the final consideration, though I'd rank that as a much lesser objection since they are limited use powers and they would replace things that could give fairly similar advantages.

So, on the whole perhaps it isn't going to overbalance the character. There may still be some gotcha associated with PPs, I'm not sure and I'm not going to spend that much time delving into every possible PP that might be available to the character to find out, but I am leaning towards the idea that it would be OK.

 

[Tulpin]

here's a question for multiclassed rogue/warlock..

Can you rogue/warlock curse enemies?

 

[keterys]

No.

 

[Klaus]

No, since you don't gain a Warlock's Curse.

Arcane Power will probably have more multiclass feats that grant other class features, like Martial power had for those classes.

 

[DracoSuave]

Where do you get that from? I see no text anywhere that indicates the +1 with dagger is available for any situation other than delivering an attack WITH the dagger. Saying Character Builder gives you that plus is not sufficient, CB has any number of small bugs when it comes to unusual combinations resulting from multiclassing. Not that I think it is a huge big deal, but it certainly isn't clearly RAW.

It's from the FAQ. After the swordmage came out, they realized differentiating between (as an example) a sword-as-implement and sword-as-weapon was leading to needless complexity, especially when dealing with implement powers that deal weapon damage, and weapon powers that deal non-weapon damage, etc etc. Then you have weapons with properties that allow them to be used as implements, implements with properties that allow them to be used as weapons....

And what is the difference between a staff and a staff?

...and that's before you get to paragon tier and things can get -really- messed up. And also, before the introduction of PHB2.

So they decided to simplify things they ruled (and tossed onto the FAQ) that unless it says otherwise, there's no games-mechanical difference between attacking with a weapon, and attacking with an implement, other than the proficiency bonus.

The rogue bonus to daggers does not say that you have to use them for weapon attacks, only that you attack with the item. Pact Blades are warlock implements, and using an implement in an implement power -is- attacking with it. So the rogue bonus -does- apply.


And before you say 'daggers are weapons!' please do note that daggers are explicitly listed as an implement type as of PHB2 and the sorcerer class.