Rogues and the Alarm Spell

[Thanee]

No, only as part of a trap.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

So you cannot find the alarm trigger, but only the trap, which overlaps with it, so to say. And you can only disarm the trap, if you can reach it from outside that area. However, as soon as the area is entered or even touched, the trap triggers, as that is what the Alarm spell does. So you actually have to disarm it, without touching it in any way, right? Does that even work?

Well, magic trap disarming is weird, anyways...

Bye
Thanee

You are deliberately trying to make it sound more complicated than it is.

 

[Saeviomagy]

You are deliberately trying to make it sound more complicated than it is.

And you're not? You're trying to obscure the meaning of the word trap first of all, and beyond that you're trying to say that the alarm spell as a trap trigger and as a spell are somehow totally different entities.

 

[Caliban]

And you're not? You're trying to obscure the meaning of the word trap first of all, and beyond that you're trying to say that the alarm spell as a trap trigger and as a spell are somehow totally different entities.

They are different. The DMG says so.

And the standard alarm spell does not meet the definition of the word trap, so I'm not sure how you can say I'm obscuring the meaning of the word.

Trap is not a defined term in the PHB glossary, so generally the only things that are traps are things that are described as traps in the rules. The alarm spell is not described as a trap in the spell description (the way glyphs, explosive ruins, and symbols are). The DMG mentions that it can be used as a trigger for a trap, but nowhere does it state that the alarm spell itself is a trap.

Just to be sure, I looked up the word "Trap" at www.dictionary.com and at the Merriam-Webster dictionary site: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=trap. The alarm spell doesn't seem to meet any of the definitions.

In the english language, an "alarm" and a "trap" are two different things.

Interestingly, this indicates that the Sepia Snake Sigil may not qualify as a magical trap either (because the spell doesn't state that it's a trap).

 

[Saeviomagy]

They are different. The DMG says so.

And the standard alarm spell does not meet the definition of the word trap, so I'm not sure how you can say I'm obscuring the meaning of the word.

Trap is not a defined term in the PHB glossary, so generally the only things that are traps are things that are described as traps in the rules. The alarm spell is not described as a trap in the spell description (the way glyphs, explosive ruins, and symbols are). The DMG mentions that it can be used as a trigger for a trap, but nowhere does it state that the alarm spell itself is a trap.

Just to be sure, I looked up the word "Trap" at www.dictionary.com. The alarm spell doesn't seem to meet any of the definitions.

Interestingly, this indicates that the Sepia Snake Sigil may not qualify as a magical trap either.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Often applied to anything by which a person is unsuspectingly caught, stopped, or caused to fall; also to anything which attracts by its apparent easiness and proves to be difficult, anything deceptive. "

And, indeed, from dictionary.com
"A stratagem for catching or tricking an unwary person."

If you're going to exclude these, then you're certainly excluding explosive runes, fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol of Death, symbol of Fear, symbol of Insanity, symbol of Pain, symbol of Persuasion, symbol of Sleep, symbol of Stunning, symbol of Weakness, and teleportation circle...

 

[Thanee]

You are deliberately trying to make it sound more complicated than it is.

Just trying to put some logic in there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Often applied to anything by which a person is unsuspectingly caught, stopped, or caused to fall; also to anything which attracts by its apparent easiness and proves to be difficult, anything deceptive. "

An alarm in and of itself does not stop you or cause you to fail, it doesn't attrack you, it doesn't actually make anything more difficult. It can trigger something else that makes life difficult for you.

And, indeed, from dictionary.com
"A stratagem for catching or tricking an unwary person."

An alarm doesn't catch you or trick you. It can trigger a trap that does those things, but all it does is alert people (or traps) to your presence.

If you're going to exclude these, then you're certainly excluding explosive runes, fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol of Death, symbol of Fear, symbol of Insanity, symbol of Pain, symbol of Persuasion, symbol of Sleep, symbol of Stunning, symbol of Weakness, and teleportation circle...

Do you actually pay attention to anything I write? Those are all described as magical traps in the spell description, therefore they are magical traps. Alarm is not, therefore it is not a trap. It can be part of a trap, and therefore disabled when the trap is disabled. (You probably don't even disable it then, it tries to trigger the trap, but the trap isn't working.)

 

[Dr_Rictus]

An alarm in and of itself does not stop you or cause you to fail, it doesn't attrack you, it doesn't actually make anything more difficult. It can trigger something else that makes life difficult for you.

Nonsense. It most certainly does make it more difficult if what you're trying to do is not be caught, and "caught" is the word you've omitted from the definition you're citing, to wit:

Often applied to anything by which a person is unsuspectingly caught, stopped, or caused to fall

Mind you, the dictionary is not the best arbiter of what D&D terms mean, and I do think there's an argument to be made that in general, spells that are considered traps are listed as such explicitly, and alarm is not. I also think that's probably an oversight on the designers' part, caused by excessively combat-oriented thinking. I don't see any commonsense argument for not considering an alarm to be a specific form of trap.

 

[Caliban]

Nonsense.

Thank you for that inciteful rebuttal. So eloquent and to the point. I certainly felt swayed.

So great was the debating skill displayed by that one word that I'm sure I have no need to read the rest of your post.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Nonsense

Thank you for that inciteful rebuttal. So eloquent and to the point. I certainly felt swayed.

So great was the debating skill displayed by that one word that I'm sure I have no need to read the rest of your post.

Thank you for that inciteful rebuttal. So eloquent and to the point. I certainly felt swayed.

So great was the debating skill displayed by that one word that I'm sure I have no need to read the rest of your post.