D&D 5E Rogue's Cunning Action to Hide: In Combat??

[Bill Zebub]

You know, I've always run it that if you can get full cover you can make a stealth check, and those with special abilities (wood elves, lightfoots, Skulkers) can do so in certain other circumstances.

But thinking through this a bit, including 5e's principle of rolling when there's "uncertain outcome", I think I might change this up a bit: when somebody actually moves around a corner, or otherwise uses cover that really leaves no doubt that they are out of line of sight, I might forego the Stealth check. It's only when it seems like is an "uncertain outcome", like using smaller terrain features, or perhaps smaller terrain features AND light obscurement, that I will ask for a roll.

 

[jayoungr]

If not they would have just said "whenever a rogue attacks they can sneak attack".

This isn't my position. The way I've always played rogues in other games would be something like this:

Round 1, starting in the open: Attack, move to cover, cunning action to roll stealth check to hide.
Round 2, starting hidden assuming the stealth check succeeded: Attack, move again if necessary, cunning action to roll new stealth check to hide.

Rinse and repeat. If I use the cunning action to dash, I don't get to hide.

I realize that my position is known as soon as I attack in each round, which is why I try to be hidden again by the end of each turn if possible.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'll add that I think the hide/shoot/hide/shoot thing is cheesy. But since stealth is so central to rogue identity, my solution of choice wouldn't be to nerf stealth, but to nerf archery.

 

[Zardnaar]

This isn't my position. The way I've always played rogues in other games would be something like this:

Round 1, starting in the open: Attack, move to cover, cunning action to roll stealth check to hide.
Round 2, starting hidden assuming the stealth check succeeded: Attack, move again if necessary, cunning action to roll new stealth check to hide.

Rinse and repeat. If I use the cunning action to dash, I don't get to hide.

I realize that my position is known as soon as I attack in each round, which is why I try to be hidden again by the end of each turn if possible.

If you have full cover though you don't need to hide.

If you have partial cover you're visible and can't hide?

 

[jayoungr]

Otherwise you're getting a poor man's greature invisibility at will.

Not at will. You have to make the stealth check every time.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'll add that I think the hide/shoot/hide/shoot thing is cheesy. But since stealth is so central to rogue identity, my solution of choice wouldn't be to nerf stealth, but to nerf archery.

Until they added aim archery was already nerfed.

Rogue only has one less point of AC roughly and can halve damage but a lot of rogues seem to want to change back achieving not much soaking up -2 or -5 to hit.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Until they added aim archery was already nerfed.

How so? I certainly don't recall hearing many people complain that archery was under-powered.

I thought the whole point of Aim was to just skip the cheese.

 

[Zardnaar]

How so? I certainly don't recall hearing many people complain that archery was under-powered.

I thought the whole point of Aim was to just skip the cheese.

Opportunity cost. Dial wielding in melee.

1. Don't have -2 or -5 to hit if firing into melee.
2. Two chances to sneak attack.
3. Splits up incoming damage.
4. Can halve incoming damage.
5. Sometimes range matters with hand crossbows and sortbows so they can't sneak attack due to range.

 

[jayoungr]

If you have full cover though you don't need to hide.

You can be behind full cover and have your location still be known. Like being invisible. The stealth check is to lose yourself from the target's POV. Think of it as choosing the moment when your attacker's attention is elsewhere to run behind the cover, so that they lose track of where you are.

But in order to get a clear shot, in most cases you have to leave cover. The halfling rogue can't shoot directly through the body of another person. The moment you are clearly seen, you are not hidden.

However, PHB page 192 says that using the Hide action in combat grants you "certain benefits, as described in the 'Unseen Attackers and Targets' section" (pages 194-195).

 

[cbwjm]

To me, I think hiding in combat is indeed quite possible if there are hiding spots... BUT the spot can't just be "a barrel".

If there is a fight, and the halfling rogue archer ducks behind a 5 foot crate in a fairly plain room... the foes know you are behind the crate. You are hidden (you can't be seen and you are being quiet), but you won't gain a sneak attack because you are attacking from "hiding" - they know where you are!

HOWEVER. Say instead of a single crate it's a pile of crates with a wagon parked right besides it. You could hide, reposition and then attack with the sneak attack bonus - you could be attacking from behind a number of crate, from the wagon, from under the wagon. The enemy doesn't know where that arrow is going to come from.

That's how I run it. You may feel differently.

This is how I run it. If there isn't anywhere suitable to hide then you can't hide. That means needing to hide and then reposition to surprise your opponents.